Black and Gay
Comments(344) This week BET’s “Meet the Faith” will take on homosexuality in Black America – how we view it, the frictions it causes in our community and how gays and lesbians themselves live their lives in the face of hate, prejudice and relatives and friends who misunderstand them.
Who knew actress Sheryl Lee Ralph was such a staunch supporter of gay people? She came out swinging – shoulders shaking and full of emotion – arguing with Zoe Ministries pastor, the Rev. Bishop Bernard Jordan in support of gay right. Jordan, who leads Zoe Ministries, was the voice for African-American clergy opposed to gay rights and gay marriage. To be fair, he was the only one defending his position on the panel, so he was definitely outgunned by Lee’s star 
power and Boykin’s familiarity with the subject. But Jordan was neither persuasive nor passionate about his point. He insisted, however, that there’s nothing to debate: the Bible says homosexuality is wrong so it is wrong. Jordan says while he doesn’t oppose homosexuals just because of who they are he insists that the act of homosexual sex is sinful.Gay activist, author and attorney Keith Boykin (who also used to be a White House aide) was also on the show. Boykin reminded Jordan that the Bible was also used to defend slavery and discrimination against women. Boykin also argued that the whole “down low” syndrome is part of the larger right wing “conspiracy” against homosexuality. There are no stats to back the notion that high rate of AIDS in black women is a result of black gay men who bring it home to them, he says.
Homosexuality in Black America has become an epidimic. Its like Aids but only nasteir. It is the showing of the end of times. Being gay or a lesbian is agaisnt God. God will punish those who commit this distgusting act. What would even make you attracted to the opposite sex. i say its SPREADING LIKE FIRE, IF YOU PLAY WITH IT YOU WILL GET BURNED. These are just like the bible days of Sodom and Gamor ( may not be spelled right sorry). God will destroy these evil doers.
There are many Gay and Lesbian people who do believe in God and their sexual perference is the only thing different between yourself and them. The Bible states that he who is without sin should cast the first stone. Who are we to judge others if you are a true Christian than don’t past judgement because they are living their lives differently, just pray for them and let God be the judge.
THE PROBLEM IS NOT HOMOSEXUALITY,THE PROBLEM IS THAT ANYONE WHO IS SEPARATED FROM GOD IS IN SIN. AND SIN, NOT MEANING THE THING THAT YOU DO,SIN IS MISSING THE MARK,SO THEREFORE WE ALL HAVE SIN AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD.HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT THE CAUSE,IT IS THE EFFECT JUST LIKE ANYTHING ELSE. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN SIN.
It really gets me how black celebrities like Ralph bend over backward to defend ‘anything but black’ yet vilify OTHER black people WTF?!!Bottom line yes homosexuality is a sin but what noone acknowledges is that there is bigotry IN the gay community itself. And I’M supposed ot feel sorry for some of these jerks?!! Don’t think so
I always see people going back to the BIBLE, but as we know from the past people, pick and choose things to fit there life or there beliefs. It’s worry, I’m sorry, I’m not here to judge anyone, God will do that.
EVERYONE SHOULD KEEP IN MIND THAT REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE OR WHAT YOU WERE TOLD, NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE NEXT PERSON IS GOING THROUGH UNTIL YOU ARE THAT PERSON, THERE IS TOO MUCH CRITICISM ON WHO SOMEONE SHOULD LOVE REGARDLESS OF THEIR COLOR OR SEX. IT IS EASIER TO HATE THAN TO LOVE. WE AS THE HUMAN RACE NEED TO FINALLY RECOGNIZE THAT.
This is appalling! Gay and Lesbian rights supporters, schools in Minnesota passing out birth control pills to 11-13 year olds, sexually explicit images and lyrics on TV, pedophiles on the lose, and the arguement I see is “let’s not judge others, it is up to God”. Don’t you think God is displeased with this all. We all know that homosexuality is wrong. It is not about judging it is about saying it is wrong and no we are not going to support your immoral activities. COME ON society what are we teaching our kids. We have become too much of an accepting society. Accepting homosexuality, sex before marriage, exploiting young women in videos. This whole homosexuality thing is not something to take lightly. Kids are experimenting with same sex relationships at an early age!
We are accepting society. Just like I had to accept your race and your culture in my America.
Why is that if a person speaks out about and against homosexuality, you are perceived as homophobic. Homosexuality is a sin, just like many others, it is not natural, and is not God’s intended plan for us. I am watching meet the faith, and I see Sheryl Lee Ralph, Ken Boykins, attack the member of clergy because he is saying that Homosexuality is a sin. African Americans are 87% Christian and/or beleive in God, so we may be more outspoken about what we don’t beleive, and that is why people beleive that we are homophobic. If you are a Christian and say that Homosexuality and lesbianism is not a sin, are a disillusioned.
I am a blck christian (c.o.g.i.c)I agree being gay is a sin. I am angry that you have hollywood on the panel to discuss what we as average everyday black citizens agree to be a sin. Hollywood accepts almost anything sin or not and uses the staus of a celebrity to taint the minds of the weak. I do not like the fact Keith Boykin and Sheryl Lee did not allow for the pastor to speak. The bible I read Keith Boykins states no man shall lay with man and god created a woman from a mans rib so that the two could reproduce. Your book knowledge you have obtained is good but take a theology class and come back to the panel. Where is Juanita Bynum or Bishop Morton at they will set it straight for Sheryl and Keith.
I am soooo outraged watching this episode of Meet the Faith. It is the church’s responsibility to speak AGAINST homosexuality which is an abomination. I am further outraged that the clergyman is being attacked for doing what he is supposed to. Being a homosexual is not any worse than being an adulterer, liar, murderer or anything else but it is clearly wrong.
As I sat and listened to the show I became frustrated about the opinion that black men are hiding the fact that they are gay because the church make them stay there and married. As a black woman I think that ANY and EVERY MAN should be responsible for their CHOICES!!!!! No one has the right to destroy another persons life. When you choose to sleep with a woman KNOWING that you arer sleeping with a man, YOU ARE WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.
I’m not a big fan of BET. I stopped upon a Black Gay Segment. It looked promising. It seemed to have some nice production and video segments on various topics. It seemed to have what looked to be a group of intelligent guests from different perspectives. The talk segment with the panelist should have been completely removed. The host could not control the guests, and passed superficially across segments to quickly to get into any depth, gay marriage, relegious debate, DL brothers, sgays in sports, etc. The panelist could not communicate clearly. The sister was loud and angry, the bald gentleman wanted to take pot shots at the paster which led you to quickly believe his targetting of the church. The bishop was not able to get a word in and communicate clearly when he did have a chance. The interviews and video segments were good. Nice production but the segment lacked depth and missed the mark. BET is improving but still has more work today to ensure we can have an intelligent and rich venue for discussion today’s world issues and community issues affecting african americans.
Homosexuality is sin, PERIOD! Whether Blacks want to accept this or not. We talk about Blacks must be accepting. Most people don’t READ the Bible. If they did, they would know that I Corinthians 6:9 says, “Do you not know that the unrightousness will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulters, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the king of God.” Blacks Folks need to wake-up. Our sinful lifestyles, including homosexuality WILL lead us to HELL. There are no “if,” “ands,” “buts” about it. When our race had morals, we had were stronger and had a real voice that effected change during the civil rights years. This is not an issue of discrimination. It’s about living a life that was ordained by God. In Genesis God made man first, then He made woman as a helper for man. Through this relationship life comes forth. How can life/procreation come from two men or two woman come together? It doesn’t happen. Stop being deceived! We live on this earth about 80 years, but our soul lives on through eternity. It never dies. However, our actions and behavior here on earth determines were our souls will continue to live on. Heaven and Hell or real. It is up to us to make the clear choice and live in accordance to the Bible (Basic Instructions Before We Leave Earth).
I am APPALLED!!1 First of all with Bishop(?) Jordan’s seeming unequipped to handle this Ken Boykins dude and Sheryl Lee Ralph. Boykins jumped all over him and said he is a Christian and did not read where Jesus denounced homosexuality and he’s never read in the bible that it was wrong. WHAT?!!! That statement alone would have got these words from me. “If you say you are a christian and say you never read where homosexuality was condemned, THEN WHAT BIBILE ARE YOU READING FROM? HAS THE HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY WROTE THEIR OWN BIBLE AND YOU ARE READING FROM THAT ONE? Jesus’ earthly ministry contained 4 gospels but the 4 gospels is not the whole bible. Have you read the first book of Romans? Have you read Leviticus? Have you read the epistles? I think not, because if you had, you would not have made such an absurd statement.”
As far as Bernard Jordan goes, NOW I see why so many that follow you are so misled. You are supposed to be a minister of the gospel and you can’t handle yourself any better than this? If I am appear to be angry, then so be it. This is rediculous!!!
P.S. If he did retract and corrected them later in the show, I did not see it because I could only stomach about 3 segments and turned that TRASH off!!!
I don’t know why “Bishop” Jordan did not quote scripture when presenting God’s stance on homosexuality. Try Lev. 18:22, Lev. 20:13, 1 Cor 6:9-10, Rom. 1:26-28. Homosexuality is a sin. Homosexuals need to loved and prayed for just as we all do. There was only one perfect man and yes,a lot of people who are saved still have issues they need to confront, but homosexuality is a sin according to the word of God. Be blessed.
This is a topic that does not need a long discussion the truth is that being gay in any sense of the matter is Wrong. We tend to want to go over again and again what we know is wrong to try to make it right. Also calling one self gay is just trying to make it seem as if its something nice and it’s not.
Say what you want, over and over, again and again to justify this issue IT’s WRONG!!!
One that Day each of us will know just how Wrong it is!
According the the word of God
Homosexuality is a sin….and i stand by his word.
Corinthians 1 6:9-10
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate (Homosexuals), nor abusers of themselves with mankind,Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
As a human being you must be mindful of your decisions. If you are a man and sleeping with men and women, you made a choice to TAKE someones life not because of the CHURCH, but because you’re DOWN RIGHT SELFISH. Whatever we DO in this life, the church is not the one that should bother our spirits, its GODS PRESENCE that should because He KNOWS ALL and SEE ALL. You can’t HIDE from that, so stop making excuses for your actions and CHANGE YOUR HEART!!!!! The HEART is the real issue.
Also, I am not a fan of Bishop Bernard Jordan for some of his beliefs. However, Sheryl Lee Ralph and Keith Boykin were completely rude and disrepectul to Bishop Jordan. You heard all this passion coming from them without knowledge at all. Dr. Ian in the future you need to invite some real men and woman of God to address the topic. What do these secular people really know. This is an issue of life and death, heaven and hell, and blessings and curses. Sadly, Blacks are making all the wrong choices: death, hell and curses.
I am sick of everytime I turn on this program there is discussion on the hardships of black gays. I am especially tired of the gay host constantly shoving down everyone’s throat gay issues. In addition, he is rude and condescending, never stops talking or give anyone a chance to talk and interrupting guests who don’t agree with him.
I don’t know if homosexuality is learned or a biological malfunction. But it’s still wrong. No matter how you try to beat everyone over the head about it being all right, no…it’s still wrong.
We can recognize by this segment on a show called “MEET THE FAITH” proves that Jesus is coming back soon. And He’s not coming for a perfect church, but He also said “no jot nor tittle shall be added nor subtracted from his word” So, as much as one may try, the Word of God says that SIN is SIN. And, we can try to be “nice” people and “accepting” but as Christians, we are called to be “peculiar” people – NOT like everyone else. And, if my sin is that I enjoy murder, would you accept that? Is that the next topic to justify? How about if I’m a LIAR? The Bible says “Shall we CONTINUE in sin – GOD FORBID” So, even if you struggle with the SIN of homosexuality, you are to STOP and SACRIFICE yourself to God. THAT’s a homosexual that is saved – one who admits he is a SINNER (like the Bible calls ALL of us) and that he NEEDS SALVATION and that GOD’s word is TRUE and IS IN REPENTANCE for what is not like God. Just like I struggle to not continue in my sins and have to confess and REPENT, WHY should ANY sin be allowed as “justifiable” because the world says it is?? GOD FORBID.
It’s is interesting that the 1:00 pm show today talked about the bible. Yet “no one” had one. I believe God has the final say so regarding all behavior, and he is the only one that can judge. However, people should do their home work before saying what the bible says or does not say… Therefore, please read: Corinthians 6:9 – 11. “Do not be deceived”…, the bible says…
It’s time for Christians to come out of the closet! We need not back-pedal when we are asked the question: “Is homosexuality sin?” – The answer is, Yes! To the Sheryl Lee Ralph’s of the world, If you don’t want to hear the truth, Don’t Ask! The world wants us to be politically correct and tell them words that will make them comfortable in their sin. The fact of the matter is we all sin, and we can not deny that homosexuality is one of them. It is a hard thing to go against the flow and stand up for what is right, but this is what separates God’s sons and daughters from the lost. True Christians love homosexuals, but not the sin, and pray that they be delivered, and we love you so much that we must come out of the closet and tell you the truth.
On the issue of Gays in the black culture or any other culture, we have but to look at history, and see that every great society. where homosexually was allowed and tolareted brought about the demise and destruction on that society. and if we forget history we will repeate it. Don’t forget about what the bible say, because it does say it is sin, and you can parse all you want, God said what HE meant, it is sin and wickness. the bible also say the wicked shall be turned into HELL and all those that forget God, Sin is whenever you miss the mark, Homosexual is the missing of the maek, of what God designed human relationship to be and repesent. It is between a man and a woman and the purpose was to have seed in the earth, any other reason for this very special relationship is the missing of the mark, and therefore it is SIN.Call it what you will, but at the end of the day, God will still be God, and what He said willl happen. The wicked will be turned into hell, look at history.
Ok, I saw this show, and I have to finally set the record straight because the minister on the show could not do it.
First, Jesus did say homosexuality is sin. Leviticus 18:22. Not just sin but an “abomination”. Leviticus. 20:13. Ok someone will argue this is the “Old Testament”, but lets go further… John 1 says “In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word Was God. All things was created by Him.” Later it says… “The Word became flesh and we beheld his glory”. This proves Jesus is God and He is the true word of God. So if you believe that then you have to believe that “Leviticus 20:13″ is true also. Jesus said “I am here to fullfill the Law”. If you did not know, the law is the old testament. There it is. If you are a Christian and you are of Christ, then you have to believe Homosexuality is a sin. As for slavery, God never said slavery was ok. He never said race mixing was sin. Race mixing was based on beliefs. He did not want to have non-believers mixing with believers. But He said homosexuality was an abomination.
If you are still saying well…
Here is further proof…
Leviticus 19:10 condems adultery
Leviticus 19:11 condems sex with ones mother
Leviticus 19:12 condems sex with ones daughter in law
Leviticus 19:13 condems homosexuality
Leviticus 19:14 condems marrying a woman and her daughter
Leviticus 19:15-16 condems sex with animals
Leviticus 19:17 condems marrying siblings
If say homosexuality is ok, then by default you have to say marrying and having sex with your mother, father, sister, animals etc… is ok as well. Do you really believe that???
Knowlege to change your life,
Bryan
I would be happy to email Ken Boykins scriptual references on homosexuality being a sin if he would read it. That way he cannot INTERRUPT me and from here out he has no excuses for making such an ignorant statement. Anyone know his email or how I could contact him?
I actually had an uncle who was gay. Of course he stood firmly on that, and did not let anyone change him. I am totally against gays and queers, or whatever you want to call them. I was aslo hurt that on the show people were blaming the church for men being on the down low. God made Adam and Eve, thats it, and of course animals. I believe Rev. Bernard Jordan did not know what he was talking about on this subject. Being gay period is wrong and sick. We as people need not to hate the person being gay, but the act. Oh by the way, my uncle died of the HIV VIRUS.
Homosexuality an abomination
Leviticus 18:32 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Also,to equate God’s word on homosexuality with the abuse and corruption of His word to legitimize the institutionalized slavery that occurred in this country is ridiculous. To equate women’s sufferage with God saying homosexuality is wrong is even more ignorant. The last time I checked, God did not give authority over His word to politicians. The problem is not with the word itself, but with the doers or non-doers of the word. Do you want to follow His word or do you want to pick and choose parts that make your life easier. Being a real Christian involves standing on His word, all of the time. Not just being wishy-washy and using it to condone issues that you yourself need to get convicted about…whether you are an NBA player, a Broadway star, or just whoever.
It’s ironic that you would discuss homosexuality and allow homosexuals to hold forum. Clearly, Dr. Ian and his co-host ARE homosexual. Unfortunately, in the Black community, homosexuality is synonymous with “secular success”. The Black man suffers from a MAJOR IDENTITY CRISIS, which paves way for them(black men) to look for acceptance in areas that were NEVER DESIGNED FOR THEM. They seek an “alien”(foreign) identity which places them in extremely “compromising” positions, all in the name of “success”. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE REEVALUATE WHERE THIS “SUCCESS” HAS TAKEN INDIVIDUALS and begin to take responsibility for ourselves and our communities.
I am a out and proud LESBIAN and I am a faithful church goer and if I’m not mistaken is it not the bible who says in clear and plan text and I quote ” Bible states that he who is without sin should cast the first stone.” now how many of us can honestly say that I have lived my life without sin! I am getting really tired of people using the bible and the pulpit to spread HATE! I don’t agree with the direction that the show went today because everyone had a point of view but were to busy trying to out talk each other that they could not communicate clearly. I’m not gonna sit here and take cheap shots and say that the reason that HIV is on the rise because the church is spreading hate and sin, when in fact HIV is on the rise because PEOPLE HAVE A LACK OF RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER GAY OR STRAIGHT!? There is so much more that needs to be discussed now days besides that LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered) Community but we as a whole have been blind sided and need to take a step back and refocus on the world issues and community issues affecting us as African Americans as a whole.
Bryan, I could not have said it better my friend. Also, re Boykins, I typed “Ken Boykins” but I see it is “KEITH” and I did go to his website. Hmm
Throughout the fabric of America everyone is clammoring to have this sin of homosexuality accepted as normal. On the show the bishop states that homosexuality is a sin and did not show scriptually why this is so. He was weak in his argument. Unfortunately our children will grow up so confused as to what is normal sexual behaviour that the next generation would emerge to be a depraved, and immoral society i.e another Sodom and Gomorah.
For you A. Gipson. It is still a sin.
The “let he who is without sin, cast the first stone” incident is one of the most well-known lessons of the Bible. A woman, who had been caught in the act of adultery was brought to Jesus Christ by the scribes (see Lawyers) and Pharisees (see Who Were The Pharisees?) as a test to see if the Messiah was a liberal in matters of the Law of God. In response to their deceitful query, He didn’t condemn the woman, not because He was a liberal, not because He condoned her sin, but because the men who brought the woman to Him were Hypocrites. He was the only person there that day who was free of sin, the only one who had the right to “cast the first stone.” He didn’t stone her (or her accusers), but instead forgave her and told her to “sin no more.” Otherwise, the day is coming when she, if she didn’t thereafter repent, won’t be stoned, but will be burned – along with the hypocrites who brought her to Him that day, if they didn’t thereafter repent of their sin:
WHERE IS THE BLACK COMMUNITY HEADED? Especially if we have people like this Bishop? There are some who believe in discernment and would consider this man to be a false prophet. Not one scripture came out of his mouth. When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, he came forth with scripture (THE WORD) to denounce Satan. I wouldn’t go to this Bishop’s church, what is he preaching? Homosexuality is a sin, read your bible and stop trying to make it acceptable in the black community and churches. The Church is where we are suppose to stand up for the righteousness of GOD. I didn’t hear the Bishop speak on Sodom and Gomorrah. You people need to read your bibles and develope an intimate relationship with GOD (YAHWEH), which mean laying prostrate before HIM praying and asking for guidance and understanding. Next time, have some people on the panel who are spirit filled and credible, not Hollywood. I didn’t hear that anyone was SAVED!!!!, I heard one say he was a Christian which led me to believe this was just another show to attack the church. There’s difference in religion and being spiritual. One if full of man made rituals, the other is putting GOD first in everything you do and letting HIM order your steps!
This is the worst show on Faith to Faith I have ever seen, because your panel was very one-sided. The Host was not very objective. Sheryl Lee Ralph maybe very passionate but that does not make her correct. Why we (blacks) think all celebrities are intelligent escapes me. Fame does not equal intelligence.
The excerpt you played from the sermon against lesbianism had more to do with young girls having “self-respect” than it was against homosexuality. While Sheryl Lee Ralph goes back to her celebrity community the average black has to deal with these young girls and boys suffering and dying from AIDS.
Secondly, you never allowed the Bishop to clarify his points. There is a difference in debating a issue and being attacked. YES homosexuality is a sin according to the Holy bible. Call it what it is Sodomy is a sin.(I do not know what bible Keith Boykin reads.) There are several verses in the Holy bible that stipulates Homosexuality is a SIN. However, I prefer Romans 1:26 through 28 which is quite clear.
Yes white slave owners used the bible to defend slavery. Does that mean everything in the bible is wrong because white slave owners used it incorrectly.
Personally, Yes I think it is a sin in or out of marriage. However if a person is gay that is between him/her and God. I do not hate homosexuals but it is still a sin. I also believe it is a leading cause of AIDS in the black community. The reason HIV is so high in black heterosexuals, is because homosexuals are spreading it to the their heterosexual wives and husbands.
This not a conspiracy coming from white people, or the white community. This is more of another example of Blacks killing blacks. The whtie community has only to wait us out while we kill each other whether through AIDS or crime.
This is quite an interesting topic. As a black Christian, I have kind of always been confused about what to think about homosexuality. The bible states it is an abomination, but never really states what an abomination is. Not to mention that no one ever focuses on the other abominations in the bible. One of which is to cause discourse or as my country cousins calls it “Stirring up trouble”. Why don’t we have such outspoken opinions about that or murder? Or Rape? Or Abuse? Wanita Bynum (not sure if that’s how you spell her name) was beaten pretty brutally by her husband (a man who stands in the pulpit every Sunday) and I still hear people defend his actions or say forgive and forget. I wonder if the same would have been true if the news headlines read ” Wanita Bynum’s husband on down low”. Wow, let that sink in for a second. Not to mention that a lot of the people leaving opinions on this page are black Christians. Some of which are pretty vocal at work, family dinners, and gatherings about how wrong the oppression of blacks is and was, but condone the oppression of another group. Condoning one form of oppression negates your ability to speak out against another. Its pretty hard to build a good argument to stop the oppression of blacks while preaching the oppression of another group. Who are we to decide, who should be oppressed. Whites did it and last time I checked blacks were not to happy about that. Nazis did it and last time I checked the Jews were not to happy about that. People really need to check themselves. Get off your high horse…it is not your place to condone anybody for their sexuality. Homosexuality exists. That’s kind of like someone saying I don’t condone not breastfeeding. Well people do it, so get over it. You can share your beliefs, but the truth is the bible says, “Nobody knows who is going to Heaven”, which means nobody know who is going to hell either. There is a man, who could possibly go to Heaven after killing three people and you could possibly go to church every Sunday, sing in the choir, serve on the usher board and be a trustee and still go to hell. The bible says “Love Thy Neighbor”. It doesn’t say love thy neighbor if he is good. Or only if he has sex with the opposite sex. It says LOVE THY NEIGHBOR. Here is a challenge. Take the time you spend hating (and yes, you are hating) and help out the young people in your community. Maybe go down to a shelter for battered women and find out what they need. Step outside your church and go talk to the community surrounding it. Have a loving conversation with the family member you haven’t spoken with in years. Who knows, a kid you help may decide to follow in your footsteps and be heterosexual just because you were a good person and helped them out. (That last sentence was not to be taken for real. I know some people are super literal)
The show was too short. Jordan, was unable, because he was constantly attacked, and bombarded with foolishness, to present his point of view on the issue of homosexuality and the church.
Jordan had ample opportunity to quote what the bible stated. Did he know any scripture? And yes, he was attacked but he had time.
AND for you April.The bible also says how can you remove the speck from your neighbor eye, when you have a mote in your own eye. there are more liars, fornicators, thieves than there are homosexuals but I don’t see these sins being comdeemed to hell on television in print nor protest. Lastly the bile says let every man work out his own salvation so leave it between lesbian homosexuals AND GOD! Liars and thieves and fornicators get married everyday I don’t see anyone stopping them!
I think that we are in a sad state when people say they are church goers and proud of sin. I don’t understand that. Not to say that I am without sin, but I am not proud of my sin. I recognize my sin just as what it is as sin, and don’t justify, or attempt to find loopholes in the bible to justify it, because there is no way. I shall quote Bryan’s comment above
First, Jesus did say homosexuality is sin. Leviticus 18:22. Not just sin but an “abomination”. Leviticus. 20:13. Ok someone will argue this is the “Old Testament”, but lets go further… John 1 says “In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word Was God. All things was created by Him.” Later it says… “The Word became flesh and we beheld his glory”. This proves Jesus is God and He is the true word of God. So if you believe that then you have to believe that “Leviticus 20:13? is true also. Jesus said “I am here to fullfill the Law”. If you did not know, the law is the old testament. There it is.
FIRST OF ALL WE ALL NEED JESUS. WE’VE ALL SINNED AND FELL SHORT OF THE GLORY. HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN ABOMINATION TO THE LORD READ 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9. THE BISHOP OR WHOEVER HE CALLS HIMSELF NEED TO PICK UP HIS BIBLE AND LEARN.HE CALLS HIMSELF A PROPHET, CERTAINLY NOT FROM GOD.This should be an eye opener for those who believe in him.GOD LOVES ALL SINNERS AND PLEADS WITH US IN THE SCRIPTURE TO TURN TURN FROM OUR EVIL WAYS. MAN HAS ATTEMPTED TO MOCK GOD IN EVERY WAY.HE GIVES A COMMANDMENT AND MAN WANTS TO DEBATE IT.GOD HELP US ALL,THERE IS A DAY OF JUDGEMENT. AMERICA AND IT’S PEOPLE WILL SOON BE JUDGED.WE HAVE TURNED OUR BACK ON GOD AND WILL SOON TURN HIS FACE FROM US.WE HAVE OPENED OUR ARMS TO EVERY FILTH THERE IS
AND NOW WE ARE FACING HIS WRATH.READ IF YOU WILL HOW AND WHY GOD DESTROYED SODOM AND GOMORRAH GEN.CHP.19.Please know the homosexuality is only one of many sins we will be judged for.
This show was ridiculous. I didn’t like that the bishop couldn’t get his word in. Both the panelist kept cutting him off. Keith and Sheryl was very angry in their positions. When the bishop finally said something, he wasn’t strong on his position. Things would have been different if Dr.Allen Keyes was defending this point. He would’ve taken control of the convo.
I believe homosexuality is a sin, just like every other sins we commit. I don’t like it when people associate this sin with race. Sin can be overcome,but you cannot change your race. You can compare it to the sin of slavery. Just like we fought against it throughout the centuries, we should continue to fight homosexuality and every other sin that is taken over our lives.
Now we have been mislead by people that hate gays and lesbians, and that’s not the gospel because Jesus Christ loves gays and lesbians. He also loves liers, backbiters, adulters, fornicators, theives,etc. He loves the sinner, but he hates and rebuke sin. People are called to speak against sin because that’s our responsibility. Our job is not to make sinners feel comfortable in their sins, but to deliever the message against it. It’s not judgement, it’s out duty.
So what we couldn’t find anything that Jesus did say personally on a subject. Does that means He condones it? That’s absurd. There are alot of things He didn’t mentioned personally, such as idolitry and witchcraft, but Paul, and Peter did. Their messages didn’t contradict Jesus’ message. That’s a weak arguement. John mentioned not everything Jesus has done or said is recorded. Homosexuality is a sin, and we(christians)are called to speak against it, no matter who likes it.
Today, I found your forum on Black and Gay to be very disturbing. It seems to me that the deck was certainly stacked against Mr Jordan, it was almost like listening to Fox News, where the opposing voice is never heard. The host should have taken more control so that each question asked by him was answered by all guest. I thought that the entire program was controlled by Miss Ralph. A true forum on this subject must take place when every one on the panel is allowed ample time to state his or her answer. I heard the soundbites from the different pastors on homosexuality is a sin and the tone in their voices which was to make people think it was with hatred that they preach this. Well the only hatred I saw today was Miss Ralph and the other guest on your show because Mr Jordan did not agree with them.
I found it funny the way the word (psychological tactic) Homo-Phobia was thrown around on the show without even looking at the word and if it really applied. Is there really a genuine fear of homosexuality or are people rejecting something they do not like. Whats the term for people who don’t like or fear pedophiles? What about people that enjoy sex with animals? No one is stepping up to defend those groups of people even though they are looked at in the exact same light. You cannot say people who are into pedophilia and bestiality aren’t born that way yet we have outlawed it. There are indeed organizations for their support and defense i.e NAAMBLA. Every homosexual at some point in their life knows that something isn’t right because biologically we all know humans reproduce with the opposite sex. Right or Wrong I am not saying we should treat our Gay brothers and sisters any less than human because they are on a different path. You cannot equate homosexuality with heterosexuality and expect society to just accept it with open arms. Name one society that accepted homosexuality with open arms-and is still standing… Even if you claim there is no GOD then nature still obviously had a plan for us and the way things are supposed to work and every human knows that before sex-ed. I do have gay friends and I do have gay people in my church but my love for them individually doesn’t change the biological fact or GOD’s plan for us all. With my life I would step up and defend any respectable person in any lifestyle. GOD loves us all not our lifestyles.
A. Gibson, sin is sin, the bible does not rate sin as severe, less severe, not severe or greatly severe. I dont think that their is any weight for sin, there is no 5lb sin or 10lb or 100lb sin, sin is simply disobedience to God.
Wow! This was certainly a biased report on the issue of homosexuality. A more even representation of both sides of the issue would have been much better. Make no mistake about it, homosexuality IS sin. God’s word is clear on that. Mr. Jordan really didn’t get a chance to fully articulate any message because he was always interrupted by the other two panelists. As a result, some of comments may have seemed to some as if he were saying that if gay people could get married, then their “sexuality” would then be acceptable to God. That is a gross untruth.
I encourage readers, particularly those who doubt or dispute that homosexuality is sin to read the following scriptures. Better yet, do your own study of the Bible to see what God says on the subject.
Genesis 13:13: “But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.”
Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination.”
Leviticus 20:13: “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
Romans 1:24-32:
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
In response some of Mr. Boykin’s comments, people may have MIS-used the Bible to justify the gross mis-treatment of Black people in America, from slavery to Jim Crow in the South and it’s North, West and East US equivalents. It was, however, MIS-USE. The Bible actually denounces what has been done to Black people in the US. One must STUDY it, be prayerful about it, and willing to submit one’s own will to God’s will, however. Remember, one of the ways that slave-owners kept slaves “in check” was not to allow them to learn to read. In fact, learning to read was a crime punishable by death – to the slave and even to any teacher of the slave. Perhaps that was to keep them from reading the very Bible they were using to justify their actions.
I was very disappointed in the Bishop that I thought was going to stand for the truth of god’s word. I am so sorry that we “Christians” are viewed as haters, when in reality we are suppose to represent Jesus who is love. I think the truth hurts and all of us were born with the discernment of what is right and wrong because we are created in God’s image. I don’t hate people who are homosexual. I hate the sin. Most people will be offended when they are comforted with their sin. I am just as ashamed of other sins that the bible tells us are sin unto death. Just imagine that if everyone decided to follow their flesh to become gay hey Jesus would have never been born!!!! Satan is very crafty and is using this debate as separation of God’s people. Remember God said that he is not the author of confusion. I love you all and I pray that you will realize that you are not offended at us Christians but with God. You don’t have to believe that it is true, but do you want to wait until it is too late to find out. Also homosexuality is a sin just like any other sin to the Lord and it is forgiven trust me he can make you new and whole again, he did it for me!
Here are so scriptures please let the Holy Spirit to minister to your heart not me:
Romans 1:20-28
20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind; to do what ought not to be done.
1 Corinthians 6:9 9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offender’s 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Romans 2:5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will give to each person according to what he has done.”[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous
II timothy 4:2
2Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
Matthew 5:28
27″You have heard that it was said ‘Do not commit adultery.’[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Lev. 18:22
22 ” ‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Romans 8:5 5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful man[e] is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind[f] is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
Please remember Genesis 19 Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed
The bible says that his people are destroyed by the lack of knowledge. It also says that all have sinned and falling short of his glory so we have to renew our minds and cast down every thought that is unlike Christ.
All of these statements are true about homosexuality, it is a SIN, its acutally what GOD calls human beings rebellion against him, just as Murder, Stealing, Gossip, being Greedy, getting Drunk and so on. I think the reason this is such a debatable topic is because the “BIBLE” does not specifically mention the word homosexuality because its a modern word, but Paul speaks of those that “Sin Sexually” in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and in Romans 1:18-32) Now Leviticus 18:22(which are GOD LAWS) also speaks about those that commit sinful acts with each other & with animals makes themselves unclean to the LORD and MUST be cutoff from the people & the land as the people before them. What we need to remember here is not the fact that homosexuality is a sin, but the fact that EVERYTHING that is wrong & against GOD is a sin. You see we have a problem with making one sin more deadly than another, when in fact GOD says: “ALL HAVE SINNED & FELL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD” now im not justifying their acts, but ALL SINS, murder, lying, stealing, fornication & adultry are equal in the EYES OF THE LORD and NONE who commit these things will inherit the KINGDOM OF GOD without recieving “FORGIVENESS”. Now I do agree with the fact that the Bishop should have been better prepared, but im also upset with the fact that BET would have more people that are trying to defend these “SINFUL ACTS” go against 1 “MAN OF GOD” who stands against it(thats just as wrong as the sinful act itself). Next time I would like to see it being an even playing field with noted Pastors & Bishops(including Bishop Bernard Jordan)on one side & those who stand for homosexuality on the other whereas everyone gets to say their peace about the matter. And again we must remember that ALL SINFUL ACTS, NOT JUST HOMOSEXUALITY, IS A SIN AND CAUSES US TO BE CUTOFF FROM GOD. May GOD BLESS you all.
This message is for JS. What are you talking about that you had to accept us. We never asked to be here. Futhermore, this wasn’t orginally your country. Remember what yall did to the Indians. Please, this is 2007. America would be nothing without African Americans. So you need to know where you came from as well, because it is not America.
First, I’d like to say that I think it was unfair of Meet the Faith to stack the deck against the Black Church by not having equal representation on their program…it’s sad. It seems like they had their own agenda. Second, the bible is clear that homosexuality is an abomination unto the Lord. No other sin is labeled in this manner in the scriptures. Third, Keith Boykin stated it’s the Church’s fault men are on the down low b/c it stands against homosexuality and men have no other recourse. This argument is faulty on so many levels. So using that same logic heterosexual men cheat on their wives because the Church says we have to be monogamous. No, these men act in this manner because of the sin in their own hearts and lives, not because they are told it’s wrong. The Church is called to take a stand on God’s principles in spite of what society says or believes. Society’s moral compass may change from day to day but God’s word remains. Lastly, this does not justify harming or hating homosexuals as people. Clearly Christ calls us to hate the sin but not the sinner. Because we are all sinners called to change our lives and stop sinning. It doesn’t mean we have the right to change what God defines as sin in an effort to justify our own…sin is sin. It’s just the way it is.
Dr Ian I was disappointed in how you handled todays show. You allowed Sheryl Lee Ralph and Mr Boykins as well as yourself to jump all over Bishop Jordan simply because he took a stand for what he believes in. When you Dr. Ian presented the questions or comments to the panel you were not fair in how you allowed the panelist to respond. You allowed Sheryl and Boykins to say all their hearts desire but would not do the same for the Bishop. Instead you allowd these two rude and angry individuals to consistently interrupt him. Now, tell me, how does that make us look as black people? Three of us attacked one on an international broadcast for billions to see and hear. You, allowed this foolishness to go on and on for the entire show. You can not honestly say that was a productive show. Why? I just explained all of that, and you did not have any other men and women of God there to discuss this issue. Sheryl said that the recording of the different pastors speaking against homesexuality sounded angry and hateful. I propose to her that they are passionate about what they believe in just as she is. Did she not hear herself on the show. If I wanted to, I could say that she is trying to oppress that pastor and his belief simplpy because she disagrees with him. Sheryl and Boykins feel as though christains are being hateful simply because we don’t believe homesexuality is God’s will. Listen, just because we believe differently does not by any means make us hateful. People disagree with each other all the time but it does not make them hateful. Parent’s disagree with the things their children say and do all the time but they still love them. I understand that the three of you disagree with the belief of the church but don’t label us as being hateful for what we believe in. Disagreeing with someone does not make one hateful. Dr. Ian I hope the next time you have a show that is controversial as this one, that you will have a balance of views on the panel. I just feel like you joined in with the other two and did nothing to stop them from interrupting Bishop Jordan.
Keith Boykins and the likes get their “Jesus said nothing about homosexuality” passed down from the “homosexual church.” This si not the first i have heard that statement. I haven’t seen that church broadcasted as of late.
One Sunday I was listening to a well know Christian Preacher on tv. What was interesting to me was that he said that with the coming of Christ we were not bound to the Laws of Moses, and that in fact after Christ’s death (which paid the ultimate price for our sins) we were now under the laws of Christ, which above all laws are to Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and to next Love your neighbor as yourself. If we do those two things faithfully, the rest should fall in place. I found that sermon very interesting and as he closed he said that Christ came to fulfill the laws of Moses (not negate them), but now the old testiment laws are “more like guidelines”. He also focused more on love and God’s grace.
For those that state that a sin is a sin and there is no big or little sin, I propose this: Proverbs 6:
16 These six things doth the LORD HATE: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
I post that to ask thisa question also. What other “sin” did God destroy a whole city for? Not for lying, stealing,small sin, or big sin.
First I would like to apologize if this message is a bit emotional. I watched the show about the “DL” homosexuals and listened to the views of the panel and I became quite upset.
What “we” as Christians black or white must remember that there are ALL types of sin that you are condemmed for in your life. There is NO sin greater than the other to GOD. PERIOD!! As a black hetersexual woman, I think “we” as black woman want to find some reason for us not being able to “find” a good black man. As I watched the show Ms. Ralph came across as a very angry black woman, for what reason I do not know. Her and Mr. Boykin seem to attack Pastor Jordan. Now I am not saying I agreed with everything he said either, but they really didn’t give him a chance to speak and I think ultimately he got caught up and twisted things he said. As the host Dr. Smith I feel you didn’t have control over your panel. I mean Ms. Ralph just kept going off and I really was floored that she expressed herself the way she did. As an talented actress I would think she could have came across a lot more calm and controlled when it came to her emotions and statements. Mr. Boykin I felt was also on attack mode I don’t know if he is gay or not, but I felt like he was defending something.
I felt like Pastor Benard got attack so much about the “black Church” that he kind of couldn’t think properly. He was so bombarded with opinions from the other two that I feel he said sometings without thinking. Because he said that “sex outside of marriage is sin, so you have to have a marriage ordain by God for it not to be sin. Okay I agree, but when asked if homsexuals got married it would be ok.. and he got alittle caught by what he said, but then redeemed himself by saying what God has designed marriage to be, which is for a man and woman to be join together. No it doesn’t specifically say you can’t be a homosexual, but it says that …a rib was taken from Adam’s womb and a woman was made….Gen 2:22. (paraphrased), that is where the word “wo”man comes from b/c we were designed from the womb of a man. If it were originally designed for men to be together and women to be together, God would have mad 2 of each. Don’t you think??
Again Mr. Benard was attacked by Mr. Boykin b/c he said that Pastors were saying it was a sin at one time not for blacks and whites to marry, and Mr. Benard said that was different states laws. We have to remember just because a pastors says something doesn’t make it right. Many pastors were brought up during racist times and so some of there beliefs were merged with their spiritual beleifs so they used the BIBLE to back it up. WHICH IS ALSO SIN!!
We put pastors, ministers,etc on such a high pedstal without seeking understanding for ourselves. We are ALL a part of this “HUMAN RACE” and as a Chirtian you should know that we are ALL Born in sin PERIOD!!! If we look to “man”, (when I say “man” I mean both male and female), for all the answers we will ALWAYS be disapointed. Man can’t help but to sin, no matter how big or small “we” as humans think the sin is, that is why we ask GOD for forgivness. We can only strive for perfection, but only God is perfect and when He created Jesus He was the ONLY man to walk this earth that was sin free. So until we look to God for the answers to all our issues and problems, we will always attack one another.
WHat we fail to understand is that there will ALWAYS be a way of something or something we think is a GREAT SIN, and then try to tear the church down for representing the BIBLE for telling us what is sin and what’s not. Now I do beleive there are churches that magnify the “homoseuality” to a point where it can turn people away. So Pastors NEED to go back to the BIBLE and understand that once again GOD sent Jesus to die for ALL “Our sins” no matter what or who they are, as long as you repent and accept Jesus as your LORD and SAVIOUR you can be saved.
We can not pick what we want out of the BIBLE and use it for to back up our own ideology of what we believe.
At the end of the day GOD created a woman to be a helpmate to a man. He created Eve as Adam’s companion to help see over the lands and animals etc. (Gen. 2:20-23 paraphrased) So that is where “we” as Chistians say that homosexuality wasn’t God’s original plan. However the world is ever changing, GOD however is the same. We ALL sin and once we realize that and realize you can be delivered from ANY sin, whether its intentional nonintential a generational curse which can be homosexuality, molestation, murder, glutney,lust, alcoholism,etc. Once you go to GOD for your deliverence you will be healed I truly believe that, but you have to want to be. I do know a young man that was delivered from the homosexual lifestyle and has a very healthy and happy marriage and child. So it is possible. But regardless of your choices in life, if you are happy and you truly believe that you are living the way you should then what can someone say to you? When it is all over and you die you have to ask yourself did you do all that you could to please GOD? Because HE is the ONLY judge and determines ultimately where you spend eternity. And once we realize that we only have to answer for how we live our lives and not for others then maybe we will stop pointing fingers and take some responsiblity and help and love one another instead of trying to tear each other apart.
I apologize for this being so long I am just tired of “us” as blacks not standing together. Come on people the true conspiracy is our ignorance. Like the old saying goes “WE SHALL OVERCOME” Well we should have long overcame.. WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET IT TOGETHER!!!!!
let us first understand the simple fact that people will defend that which they are involved in, it doesn’t matter how much bible you know or don’t know, the bible is very clear on this topic, (homosexuality) it’s wrong and all you have to do is open Gen. 1:27-28 where it talks about being fruitfull and multipling, let me ask this question how can to of the same sex create any living thing? God is Love,that simply means Love the person but not the sin, people will use the bible to justify what they do being wrong or right, my wife has written a book on this topic I will be glad to send you a copy for free, this is a subject that some preachers just will not touch, but they will agree it’s wrong.
there is nothing wrong with opinions, but facts is better, READ THE BOOK………..BIBLE
B-ASIC
I-NSTRUCTIONS
B-EFORE
L-EAVING
E-ARTH
it doesn’t matter how many tv shows they produce or how many books will be written on this topic in the end the only book that will matter is the one that we started with.
Half of the truth is nothing more than a whole lie…
Have my own eyes deceived me, or was it the perilous hearing of my own ears! The armor of GOD serves to protect, and those “called” to the forefront to preach and teach “The Word” are mortified with shame after witnessing the blatant indecisive and compromising exhibition of a Bishop…
Look beyond the flesh and seek the seed where beliefs outside of biblical beliefs sprout, then ask yourself… If I were standing before the Father, could I or would I engage in this act in which I stand firmly on, without having second thoughts… Besides, GOD is omnipresent and when He created man, He did create a mate opposite of him so that they may procreate, remember all in decency and in order.
Gods’ never changing word can’t be compromised, so, by allowing worldly thinking; or rather compromising to appease the right, you did nothing more than impeached the righteous “biblical facts”, we as believers believe. Ask any audience, what did we gain, but most importantly, as an architect for delivering GODs word, on a world stage you could not articulate GODs divine message, but most importantly, how many souls for GOD did we lose.
As a man of the cloth, you lacked proper preparation by appearing unprepared or rather appealing to understand the plight of homosexuality, (based on biblical scriptures only) you did nothing more than became neutral to appease the people by straddling the fence standing in (partial) agreement, streamlining the very fabric of what you are called to preach against.
Where in any biblical doctrine has GOD adorned any lifestyle (not just homosexual) that was in conflict or contrary to His teachings? Maybe TD Jakes would be a better candidate to verbalize, illustrate, and then orchestrate what the Bishop could not.
I just want to clarify one thing, b/c when I reread what I wrote I didn’t want anyone to take this the wrong way. When I said about it (Bible) dind’t specifically say you can not be a hmosexual, I was meaning that if your choice is to be one and not seek deliverence that you will not have God’s Blessings.
Here are some scriptures for clarification on this matter.
Romans 1:26-32
1Corth 6:9-10
Lev-18:22, 20:13
I don’t know what BIBLE Mr. Boykin was reading from either b/c like a lady above stated, b/c these scriptures clearly state that it is sinful. Along with other sins as well!
Now that I think about it. I am so disappoointed that a “Bishop” could not represent Christian beleifs with these scriptures and more. Like I said before he just let the other two talk all over him and confused himself. He was truly not the best representation of the church as we could have had on the panel.
I never have written in on my opinions on a show before but I felt so compelled to do so this time, so I thank you for you attention in reading my thoughts on this matter.
Many Blessing to You
Great points, Harry.
The Bible does say love thy neighbor as well as “he who is without sin should cast the first stone.” However, it also says “with all your getting, get understanding” and it is YOUR responsibility to get it not your pastor or preacher. Most do not have a clue what the Bible says and then boast “I am a Christian” which could not be any further from the truth.
The problem is that we confuse correction with condemnation. If any of you have children, when they do wrong do you correct them? Do you hate and condem them when you do so?
Faith is not how you feel but is belief in the word of God. You cannot pick out scripture to justify your lifestyle nor can someone choose scripture to condem ones lifestyle but to correct is to LOVE.
Paul had a thorn in his flesh. He asked God to remove it. God replied, “My grace is sufficient”. It never reveals what Paul was struggling with. I could have been physical, mental or even sexual but God’s grace was suffucient.
If God has a plan for you and you choose another path are you wrong or is He? With that said, if He outlined His plan is the Bible, is straying away from that right or wrong?
Many times we feel like cursing someone out or even feel like commiting violence against someone. Most of us would not because it is wrong. Just because we feel a certain way does not exclude it from sin. Think SPIRITUAL! That is it. Everything we battle is spiritual. That includes lying, stealing, homosexuality etc..
It is not condemning, it is just stating the facts. Everyone has to take responsibility once they have heard the truth. “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling”.
Knowlege to change your life,
Bryan
Thanks for this episode. I enjoyed hearing the comments of John Amichi. There’s a gay may who doesn’t fit in many of the stereotypes of effeminate gay men. I thought his comments were sophisticated, thought-provoking, and on-point. Everyone in our community will be better off once a range of sexualities are accepted. I believe I was born straight, and I have no place to tell anyone who believes their sexuality is genuine as well.
Now we as Christians say that “God is the same God Yesterday, Today, and Forevermore”. If this is truly what we believe, Why don’t we take the time to stop and think about the fact that The God of Yesterday Destroyed an entire City because of….. HOMOSEXUALITY!!!!! (Refer to Genesis 19) God even Destroyed Lots wife because something about the homosexuality it the city of Sodom still attracted her when she was attempting to leave the city. (Remember when God turned her into a pillar of Salt?)
My question is… if we serve the same God of yesterday, and homosexuality wasn’t tolerable back then, then what makes us believe that God is going to except this means of living today. I would not have been surprise if God in all his might would have put his mighty hand upon that studio today as that interview was taking place, because it was an utter disgrace to the UNCOMPROMISING word of God.
God plain and simply says in at least 10 scriptures that I read, that Homosexuality is a Sin and “ye shall surely be put to Death and their blood upon them” Lev. 20:13 Not only does he say that it is a Sin, but he takes it a step further and calls it an “ABOMINATION”
Now i just want to believe that God, being who he is, has a few things that makes him mad, and he calls these things sin. But I also believe that he some some things that literally just makes him cringe and I believe he calls these things an Abomination.
I don’t know “Bishop Jordan” or who or what he is the “Bishop” over. So I won’t judge him off of this one interview. But I will say that if you are coming to do a show like this, and insist on claiming to be a “Straight Black Christian Man” You should have been well prepared to stand of for “Straight Black Christian Man” and stand up most of all for the God you are supposedly representing. There is no reason that he should have went into a BATTLE LIKE THIS WITHOUT HIS SWORD OF TRUTH … THE BIBLE!!!!! I am really upset that no one on that panel had a bible to refer to, and further more and I am upset that Gay rights gentlemen claims to be a Christian but obviously has not studied his bible. I am sure if he studied his word as much he studies passing men that cross his path, his outlook on this subject would have been different, and he would not have had thee audacity to say that “THE BIBLE DOESN’T SAY THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN”. I don’t know what bible that was he was reading, but “The King James Version” of the Holy Bible plainly states that God did not tolerate it in the bible days, and he will not tolerate it today, or tomorrow. “Bishop Jordan” Do your homework. Dr. Ian, Take a Stand. Do some research before you bring people on the show that don’t have a clue. Unfortunately being an “INTERNET PROFIT” (AND YES I SPELLED IT RIGHT) does not make you and expert to the truth and uncompromising word of God.
HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN
BUT YOU CAN BE DELIVERED
REPENT AND TURN FROM YOUR WICKED WAYS
OR AS THE BIBLE SAYS….
DEATH SHALL SURELY BE UPON YOU!!!
XAVIER
Nikki, the majority of homosexuals say that they were born that way, and it has been in them since they were a child. I understand that, because just like I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I also believe that the powers of Satan are real, and I believe that he can attack an infant with the spirit of homosexuality at the beginning stages of life. And that cool with me, its his job, and he does it well. BUT……
BUT…..
YOU SAY YOU WERE BORN GAY…..
THAT’S EXACTLY WHY THE BIBLE SAYS….
YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN!!!!
I only watch MTF when I can but a good few times, I’ve caught Min. Jordan on there representing views of Christians. As someone who is born again by Biblical standards, I can’t help but wonder why they keep choosing this man to argue the views of believers in Christ. Everyone knows that nothing about this man is either authoritative, credible, or respect-worthy and that takes away even from the image lended by the garb he wears. I think he is simply the most available and that MTF should make the effort to re-invite the likes of A.R. Bernard. I feel that beneath people talking over and verbally charging Jordan, is the silent insult by those who invite him that he should regularly represent the rest of us. I wish he would explain the basis of Christian belief from the scripture and stand up for himself against the Boykins and Lees that appear on show and totally betray their age group and education level by carrying on like children.
As for the point of the show itself, I feel as if a major ommission was made when the discussions kicked off and no one said “What is ‘homophobia’”. Whenever you plan to debate, you MUST define your key terms! Is it maltreatment of G/Ls, the belief that the orientation is sinful, or both?
Finally, I would like to make a substantive comment on the NBA player whose name evades me at the moment. I found it so interesting that he touts such high intellectual standards, has sex with men [whenever he does i couldnt know] and negates other’s authority to speak their minds as he was allowed to do on MTF AND is an atheist who does not worry about any relationship beyond that of people. I suggest that anyone who is interested in reaching an understanding of the biblical position that goes beyond internet-post debate to open a Bible for yourself [pref. a KJV with an Amplified parallel version], replay the clip of his interview, then read ROmans 1:18-32, then do both again. Then, get quiet for a few minutes and reflect…
Peace and God bless,
YaGurl…
long story short we all know it is a sin, at least its not natural and believe me im not homophobic,I can only read what the book reads and as all in life everything is a choice dont blame God for your choice it is the mans choice to allow another man to penatrate him with his penis it is the mans choice to grab a penis and put it in his mouth yeah graffic huh stop blaming God for your perverted desires God does not give one strength to sin and any fool who compares gay rights to civil rights is exactly that a fool,one you can hide one you cant,one is achoice one is not, if we are to say that sexual preference is instilled by God than why do we judge the sick pedaphile who cant seem to stop his desires despite several trips to prison, the extra abuse once inside yet he cant help himself is his only defense, witch leads him to murder so as not to get caught, Oh now see all the sinners casting stones. homosexuality was a crime long before having sex with minors which is no where in the bible ask them in Utah HOLLA
First of all I don’t have any thing against homosexuals; I just don’t con-dorm it. It is a sin in the Bible for the simple fact that God did not intended for two men, nor two women to join together as lovers. The bible also gives examples on how God intended for man and women co-exist with one another. For example, when God made Adam he gave him a female companion (Eve). Also, when God sent the pair of animals to Noah’s arc he sent a male and a female not two of the same sex. If God really want two men and two women to be lovers, he would have given them the ability to produce children. As a Cristian I feel that some church people are being put as hateful people because of some narrow minded few. I have a gay relative in my family and i have no problem talking to him in the public, that also go for people out side of my family. I do not agree with their ways, but I do respect them as people. Even God don’t hate gay people, but he don’t accept it either.
First of all I applaud Sen. Grassley I think he is courageous to investigate these men and women who exploit the word for their own good. I also think it is crazy that people will follow these pastors first and defend them with more ferocity than they do God’s word. I have read posts in the last few days where people say they don’t want their pastors to be poor. They want them to live well. I feel so sorry for people and their ignorance.
I watch the followers of Creflo Dollar take notes during his broadcast and wonder how often they read the Bible. I watch the folks on Eddie Long’s broadcasts and they look like they are out to meet a mate. They dress and act just like they are at the club. I wonder why does someone need a do-rag and shades in a house of worship.
I’ve known several people that go to New Birth and some of them will say and do anything. I mean anything with anybody and you adults on here know what I mean. Now if you say anything negative about God or Jesus they will you a pass but say something about “Bishop” and they will be ready to come to blows with you.
Creflo’s crowd is a little different. They do seem to have more class but its not unusual to see them post pictures of cars and homes all over the place. I guess if they feel that if they see it enough they will get it. They focus a lot on the material but they seem to be in a more spiritual place than the followers of Long. Most of them are honestly good people compared to the backsliders that come out of New Birth.
I hope all of the followers of these men and women like Long, Henn, Dollar, Bynum, Weeks, etc. will read 2nd Timothy in the 3rd chapter the passages about the last days. Also, read the 7th chapter of Matthew and please pay very close attention to verse 13 and what follows. Keep following those false prophets that lead you uninformed masses. You are being led like sheeps to the slaughter all in the pursuit of a few coins. I grew up in the African-American church and one thing that was always stressed was to read the Bible for yourself. Don’t watch a tape or listen in your car. Read the Bible for yourself!
NEW BOOK- SNAKES IN THE PULPIT- EXPOSES EDDIE LONG AND CASHFLO DOLLAR , THIS GUYS ARE CROOKS AND ARE STEALING BIG TIME FROM THEIR MEMBERS AND SOME OF THEIR MEMBERS DO NOT HAVE FOOD ON THEIR TABLES.
SNAKES IN THE PULPIT – NEW BOOK
http://WWW.SNAKESINTHEPULPIT.COM
REUBEN ARMSTRONG WROTE THIS BOOK
In my opinion I feel that all people are reated equal and should be able to be accepted regardless to what their sexuality…I am gay christian who loves and serves God to my capacity and will continue to do so all the rest of my days upon this Earth… And if it is a sin who are you to say so… If you read the Bible it clearly says that all things should be taken according to the time… So in saying that things that meant something then necessarily do not mean the same at this time
1) All sex outside of marriage is sin
2)Keith Boykin needs to be controlled on the panel
3)Why is there debate on this?
4)Changing a bad habit is not impossible with Gods help.
5)It is important to “study the bible”
6)We must imitate God and Jesus and love the “person” and hate the “practice”
7)Homosexuality is a “practice” not a “condition”. The practice is what is condemned
I saw bits & pieces of the segment today and what I saw really bothered me. First, Bishop Jordan did not seem prepared to answer biblically. He made a statement saying homosexuality is a sin because the persons involved have sex before marriage. Homosexuality is a sin because God finds a man who lies with a man “as one lies with a woman… detestable.” (Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13) The same for a woman lying with another woman. The sinfulness of homosexuality is also mentioned in Romans 1:18-32 & I Corinthians 6:9-11. Now true Chrisitians are not homophobic, do not judge those who proclaim to be gay or lesbian and do not turn away persons who proclaim to be gay or lesbian but they also do not agree with their lifestyle. I’ve come to believe when a person hides something or does something on the down low, deep down inside they know it to be wrong. (My personal opinion.)
I am appauled at the comment Jessica Glover made about Homosexuality. You are the main reason that many people who struggle with same sex issues run from God and not too Him. For years I struggled and hid my pain of living a false lie in my life. I tried everything to change but kept coming short of what was expected of me as a “perceived 5′11 225 straight acting macho black male.” But deep down in side I was attracted to men of the opposite sex. Yes, I was what you would call a down low brother in search of answers that I could not find in the church. “But God”, in is true fashion remained faithful and continued to show me what “His love” was all about. He allowed me to pull aside from religion and religiosity for a short season of my life and be ministered to by men just like myself who have chosen to walk away from the “Gay or Bi” lifestyle. So far things have been looking great but the secret of my success was getting out of a “Religious and controlling environment…What really amazes me about the so-called church is that I had numerous encounters with other Married men who were black and white, wealthy, educated and “perceived macho men in society.”.. To the church stop living a lie and become a place of healing where people can come a see the real love of Christ….
In search of significance.
Last comment. Have you noticed how in the “Black community we seem to forget that God is grieved with the sin of Ignorance, Self-Hatred, Fatherless homes, Drug infested neighborhoods, Low performing schools, Black on Black Crime, Uncontrolled foolish spending, Religiosity, and the list can go on and on. We focus some much on the minors and not he majors…If we get our priorities right everything else would fall into place….To all my Gay-Bi Sexual brother and sisters there is hope. Keep your head up, look to God the Father and He will be your comfort and strength. By all means avoind any negative churchy environment, it will only lead to fruitless life…..Trust me the majority of these people are probably in bad marriages themselves, or they are broke, or their children are in jail or performing very badly in school….God said, seek Me and you will find Him…
I Peter 5:7
While I appreciate the show addressing the issue, I was very disapointed in the choice of guest.
Keith Boykin, a gay man with a strong opinion and Sheryl Lee Ralph were an necessary addition but the choice of Bernard Jordan was not the best Minister to have on the show. TD Jakes, Pastor Donny McClurkin would have been much better choices. The Biblical perspective was not properly represented as it rarely is in such conversations in media. I will suggest several books for those who would like to get an accurate understanding of the Biblical prespective, the social remifications and political significance of homosexuality.
“The Same sex Controversy” by Dr. James White (a great Biblical examination in the subject of Homosexuality).
“Legislating Morality” by Dr. Morman Geisler & Frank Turek (great examination of the true political issue of Morality in the USA).
While I as a Christian do not condone any abuse or mistreatment of Gays, nor do I believe that they have a right to impose their proverted way of life on those of us who know it is wrong and very harmful to society. It is not a civil Right matter or a Human Right issue in most cases. It is a moral preference issue. And Down Low brothers are simply dishonest wheather out of fear of rejection or physical harm it is wrong to
endanger others because they choose to hide their preference. If they are not willing to openly be who they are, they could at least not use straight members of the opposite sex to hide their
sexuality. There was no mention of how wrong it is for gays to have sex with straitght partners without telling them about their gay activities.
That’s the real issue, there are many gays who openly live gay and are willing to deal with how their family and friends and society reacts to them.
I see that my comment has not made it twice on the blog, I wonder if there is some reason other than someone is a bigot and does not want me to shed some truth to this matter? Folks you will find that many of the individuals that call themselves christians today are christians based on what the culture decideds is right. Today the institutional church follows culture not the reverse. Most of the ministers, today are just interested in filling their churches with people to collect money and have power and influence; that is the work of satan as the bible tells us! Most people read the bible with no historical reference to what they read, they just assume that what they read in the bible has the same meaning over 2000 year ago as today. Anyone that looks at the history associated with what the prophets write about in the bible knows there are many cases where literal reading is not the intent of the prophet. Jesus himself was sent to the cross because he did not taking the scriptures he grew up with as literal but took them in context – he during his time period was called many times by his own people crazy or a herotic. Keep this in mind, Jesus always would tell us to study to be approved, don’t just read what the bible says, study it and use some context to what you read – always ask the what, where, when, why and how for any law that is commanded to you. Remember God tells us we are created in the image of God, thus we are to think reason and carry out justice and love as he would.
NOw on the issue of homosexuality, lets start with the book of Leviticus so many so called learned christians use this book to condemn homosexuality, however, when the history is applied to chapers 20 and 21, one finds this not to be the case. The Levitical priets were given this law because people were having temple orgies to pagon gods and using sex both homosexual and heterosexual as a sacrament; they wanted god to share the stage with other gods. The word abomanation here is in reference to the idol workhip going on, sex had nothing to do with the condemnation. If you just look into the history of this time period and what was going on, you will understand this to be the meaning of abomanation idol worhip is the real problem here to the people of this time. Another thing to note is this: if this was a homosexual condemnation, where is the female condemnation at; why would God say to sleep with men is a sin and say nothing to what women do, they are also created in the image of God? If you read literally, female homosexuality is not forbidden in the old covenant; one would have to message the scriptures to come to that conclusion – this is why we need to look at the history to get the proper context.
Now lets address the new covenant. The most common book so called learned christians like to use is Romans to condemn homosexuality, however, again they would have to reach to do so. Let us focus on Romans chapter 1 verses 21 – 27. In these verses Paul is addressing the fact that men and women are worshiping all kinds of pagon images even though they knew who God was. He even goes on to say that they were having orgies as sacraments to the Gods; does this sound familiar to you? Paul clearly make the statement that because the worhip something other than god they would be destroyed – he does not make a connection to the destruction of Rome because of sex – he say they are destroyed because the commited Idol worship. He goes on to mention the fact that they are having homosexual sex, but the issue to God is the fact that they worshiped something other than God, actually they worshiped something that God himself created. Finally, if you look at the Gospels, you will find that Jesus says nothing about homosexuality as a sin, modern christianity like to say he does, however, that bibilically and historically is not the case! You can not find anywhere in the bible where homosexuality is spoken badly of unless it is tied to idol worship, however, everywhere it is talked about heterosexual sex is taking place also – remember they are having orgies. There were homosexuals that were in the community that did not worship idols and have orgies and the bible remains silent in respect to them.
People remember one thing, the eunich is a male that has been castrated, today we call this a transexual; this person in the Isaih 56 is the third branch of the body; in the book of Mathew he is blessed as long as he keep the covenant of God as stated by Jesus.
Calvin, do you really believe anything you just wrote?
Ah, let’s see, Jesus never spoke of beastiality, sex with kids, incest, substance abuse, or spousal abuse. So I guess all of this is ok, right?
The biggest misconception about Christians is that they hate homosexuals. If some “Christians” do it is against what Christ taught.
The other thing is that Every man, woman and child is born with the capacity to be a liar, thief, blasphemous, adulterer( or look with lust), haters of God, hypocrite, homosexual, murderer(or hatred: murderer at heart), etc. Mark 7:20 saids that sin comes from within. Some people are more tempted in one area than another, but they are all abominations in the sight of God(Prov. 15:8,9).
We must be BORN-AGAIN, Repent-which means to turn from sin, and Trust the Savior because of the Love demonstrated on the Cross, which we did not deserve; taking the punishment for Our sins. God will grant us the FREE GIFT of Eternal Life. We are not saved by giving to charity, giving tithe, saving someone from a burning building, sit in on sermons, being a Deacon/Pastor/Singer at Church, believe or acknowledgment that the God/Bible/Jesus are true, standing against gay right/abortion/family values, etc. It saids without the Shedding of Blood there is no forgiveness of sins. It is only through the blood of Jesus Christ ALONE that saves us from the wrath of God. God is Holy, Righteous, and Just.
We Put on His Perfection, His Heart and Mind. Or If we reject we are Punished(The Lake of Fire: Hell for all Eternity). Don’t risk loosing your soul for your own desires and wants. Deny yourself and take up your Cross and Follow Jesus Christ!
I can not judge that is true. I have no hate against anybody because of the chioce to live that life. All I can say is that if being a gay person is right than 2 woman should beable to produce a child or 2 men the same. the only true way is you must have a woman and a man. God did not make Adam and Steve or Amanda and Eve. If he wanted us to have a choice than he would have said Adam you have a choice a woman are a man but he did not do that he said Adam here is your helpmate a woman to bring fourth his seed. And yes he did speak against all things that are not of him. What is the purpose to believe in God but not abide by his word. I feel that we see God like a parent you haved raise me but now I make the decision. we act like his word does not matter. The word of God is the same yesterday, today and forevermore. And if you say that mankind wrote the bible than you dont have faith tobelieve. He is the only way there is no other. And for all this Mega churchs taking people money. I live texas I grew up in a penticostal church we had very few members but every body in town said the pastor was taking our money and that was not true. I give because I will be blessed from God for blessing his servant. No one is force into giving. You give because you believe in Gods word and if that man of God is not right than his congregation blood is on his hand and he will bust hell wide open. So for people who want to be pastors and bishops its not a play thing its trully for real. Think read fast and trully ask God to open your heart eyes and mind to his word and your surrondings. And he shall so you the way. God Bless all.
The word of God says, ” who am I to judge another mans servant”. Jesus lived by the words of his father, ex. The woman caught in the act of adultery. The word of God, no humanity, speaks against adultery, just like the word of God speaks against homosexuality. There is truly no measurement (1/2) in the word of God on sin, however, society do put measurement on sin. There all many forms of unrighteous, and they are SINS. What we often choose does not determine, who we really are. Many times the choice is not ours. The issues of homsexuality runs deeper than still waters. The thorn that many refuse to deal with, sexual abuse. Which was not a child’s choice, the spiritual transforming of one spirit to another, one learnt behavior to another, we are creature of habit. Even though one engages in an ungodly act does not mean to mistreat them, they problem have already experience that, pain is pain rather it is inflicted, or conflicted. But God is love, to love them that is who Jesus is. Many times love is confused with “I support you, and condon what you are doing, wrong”. I love you not the act, that’s who Jesus is. So I say not to my religious brother/sisters, black/white, but my Christian family (There is a different), do not be decieved. An even christian decieve themselves, esp. when it something that we are not ready to loose, really don’t have the knowledge of how to loose it Which is through the word of God, it like sniffing flour, and sniffing issues through the word of God can change are ways of thinking according to the way we been taught. (1 cor 6:9), speaks of the act as been unrighteous, which anything unrighteous is a sin, even for Christians. “They who engage will not inherit/or possess the kingdom of God”. Do are homework, the bible was original written in Greek/Hebrew, get a strong, study show thyself approve, and as Joseph say “It will be GOD who will provide knowledge, interruptation, and divine understanding. “DO NOT BE DECIEVED”.
Ignorant ass black people always quoting a book given to them to by a slavemaster to justify their enslavement. Which version of the bible do you speak of the version made before 600 AD that talks of the “Hammitic curse” where blacks are doomed to servitude for all eternity. Maybe the more current bible endorsed by King James I that introduced England into the slave trade in the early 1600’s. Oh yeah and by the way, King James was a homosexual, bet you didn’t know that. Black people you better start reading some books and stop letting people influence your way of thinking. Homosexuality is more like a genetic defect. They can’t help who they are attracted to no more than you or I. Why would you want homosexuals and heterosexuals to mix anyway? If it is a birth defect, let them marry and because they can’t procreate they will eventually die off.
For those of you who keeps bringing your god into the topic…isn’t passing judgement a sin??? Isn’t it god who is suppose to pass judgement??? If you really feel like these people (homosexuals) are doomed to hell….why are you so worried about. Let them go to hell, lol. Obviously they are not going to change because YOU said they are going to go to hell. Yall so called religious people crack me up. Yall are always the first people to pass judgement on somebody. Most of yall are closet sinners anyways, lol. Like I’ve said before, Black people are the last people who should be condemning people for something they have no control over.
Why do so many people like to use the “you can’t judge” or “we all have sinned”, or better still, the preverbial, “he who has no sin, cast the first stone.” scenario whenever they can’t think of anything better to say about sin. I will say this and only once. IF YOU EVER CRACKED OPEN A BIBLE YOU WOULD KNOW THERE IS A SUCH THING AS RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT!!! READ IT SOMETIMES AND STOP QUOTING THE TRADITIONAL SCRIPTURES THAT YOU ONLY HEARD ABOUT.
Funny thing is that “us religious people” are always told “well nobody’s perfect” but yet when someone THINK we sinned, we get the “you supposed to be a christian” spewed our way. My question is this: Are christians included in the “NOBODY’S PERFECT” group? IF so, why are we blasted(you supposed to be a christian) when we sin?
this is an issue that is always interesting since the basics are usually overlooked. Homosexuality is a sin..the bible states that clearly, you can’t debate that, or say it isn’t true without calling the rest of the bible a lie. If one thing is wrong, the whole book would be wrong. Why do we debate the Word? You can’t. As for the act, or lifestyle…Being a homosexual is not a race, gender, creed, or anyother physical trait that would make up you, it is a preference…a sexual preference. When marching, protests, complaints, etc. are done, it is all over the simple fact that a “sexual Preference” is being promoted. Is it a right? It is a choice homosexuals make and they reserve the right to do what it is they want, but it still, in God’s eyes, is wrong. Does it out weigh other sin’s? None of us are God to really determine that except where it is written in the book of Lev. that it is a sin against God, against your body. God’s body, against His specific word, as others. My concern is I don’t care to know what a persons sexual preference is, so save the protest, etc.. That is your personal business, or is it ok for others to protest their specific desires? It is crazy to think imposing one’s SEXUAL desires on others is ok….sin or not.
I guess to be fair the act of homosexuality is wrong. Not only is it wrong is a blasphemy and an abomination. But the homosexual person is separate from the sin. You see while everyone is entitled to their opinion. GOD is the final judge and while everyone can say this or that is wrong we are told in the WORD of GOD “physician heal thyself” we are told that we will be judged on our heart condition. We have to confess JESUS as our LORD & Saviour and more. But even homosexuals know that this is inherently wrong because if they had a choice does anyone really think that they would aspire to be gay? I mean little Johnny what do you want to be when you grow up? “I want to be a big 6′4″ gay guy just doesn’t jump at you now does it? So while this debate rages I am a Born Again Christian and I want to go on record as saying “FATHER forgive me for MY sins which were many and have mercy on those who are wrong but don’t know the way out. In JESUS name I pray. AMEN
As for the issue of judgment, define it. To call some one out for what they do when it is wrong, is not judgment, it is calling it what it is. Judgement is to “form an opinion or have an opinion, neg. or possitive on someone” Calling someone who is doing wrong, wrong, is not an opinion, it is truth. Why do so many people reference the bible and “hear” certain scriptures try to quote them when you are using them out of context. Read the whole passage, study the culture of the time the passage was written and understand what God is saying, not what some “public” preacher told you what he thinks God meant, but rather what God really did mean. Stop changing scripture to justify actions, rather we should change our lives to fit the scripture. Not a judgement…it is what it is. My opinion is not mine….it is what God says
if you are GAY “YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD” because if you believed in him you would live by his WORD! you are a SINER if you pratice Homosexuality… IT IS A SIN!! GOD loves everyone HOWEVER, he does not like sin. the BIBLE is for us to live by it’s simple if you say this is your GOD follow the Laws in the BOOK. if you dont follow the Law you are not one of his children! DONT blame the CHURCH for Homosexuality or “Down Low” you do what you want to do it is a CHOICE… GOD lets everyone have a CHOICE, I did not have a CHOICE to be black i Was born that way it cannot be washed off!! being GAY was and is YOUR CHOICE “NO ONE IS BORN THAT WAY”… YOU CHOSE IT!
I whole heartedly agree with the comment left by Al: “I am APPALLED!!1 First of all with Bishop(?) Jordan’s seeming unequipped to handle this Ken Boykins dude and Sheryl Lee Ralph. Boykins jumped all over him and said he is a Christian and did not read where Jesus denounced homosexuality and he’s never read in the bible that it was wrong. WHAT?!!! That statement alone would have got these words from me. “If you say you are a christian and say you never read where homosexuality was condemned, THEN WHAT BIBILE ARE YOU READING FROM? HAS THE HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY WROTE THEIR OWN BIBLE AND YOU ARE READING FROM THAT ONE? Jesus’ earthly ministry contained 4 gospels but the 4 gospels is not the whole bible. Have you read the first book of Romans? Have you read Leviticus? Have you read the epistles? I think not, because if you had, you would not have made such an absurd statement.”
As many reputable preachers have been covered on BET”s exalted you pick an Internet preacher to defend the Christian community. I say Internet because he appeared to have gone on the Internet to obtain his certification. He was talking in circles and it made me so furios that I had to turn it off. If you are going to have debates or shows to discuss issues in our community please have choose somenoe of substance, please be more selective in who you choose represent God’s word. The government is slowly removing God and wondering why there is so much chaos. The answer is that the Gospel teaches about common law and how to abide, if there is no gospel there is no adherence to common law. I do not expect my Black supported stations to air filth and things that are untrue. If anything, the station should be trying to help and encourage and not allowing anyone to speak who proclaims to be a Christian. Why don’t you get TD Jakes on the Show, or Bishop Kenneth Ulmer, I bet those other two panelists wouldn’t have stood a chance. However, the truth shall come to light on Judgement Day. For those of you who believe, stand firm in your faith, do not waiver, do not let the enemy get to you with his trickery. For those who are unbelievers, don’t believe everything you hear, go read for yourself, pray for understanding and ask God to open your ears and eyes to recognize what is right. Our government is killing us, BET please don’t join the forces by allowing mockery and craziness on your shows. Have you ever wondered why we were able to make it through slavery, our ancestors had faith. There wasn’t this craziness or doubtfulness about God’s word. Do you think God’s word was created out of coincidence or someone just decided to write a book. I say no, its because our ancestors were witnesses of God’s Grace, his power. We have made it because he has always been there. Of course there have been trials and tribulations, God isn’t a puppeteer, he gives us free will. People will blame God for what they are going through, knowing that they created the situation themselves and mad because good didn’t do a spell to bail them out. God’s word teaches you how to sustain through your trials and tribulations, how to stand against the enemies attack. I say again don’t be fouled by the laws that are being passed. The constitution was written and based on God’s Law; however, the enemy has been able to sit on our Government and cause disrruption but we have to stand firm and not allow Internet Preachers on national shows.
Here are some scriptures of reference. The first talks about how God destroyed a city because of homosexuality.
1)
Also in the beginning God created Adam and Eve, he created them so that they can go and be fruitful. You cannot be fruitful with a man, its not designed by God that way. Science may have created something, but its not God’will! In every chapter of the bible it speaks of man and woman, not man and man (Adam and Steve), people please read your literature. Don’t let false prophets and false idols persuade you, read every verse for yourself.
To reply to JS if you ever read the Bible you would know to shut your mouth because you leave no doubt that you are a fool. First this America was built by Black sweat, stolen from the Red Man after they saved your people from dying of starvation and disease and everything your people have done is made them hated all the world over. You don’t have to accept me in your America, because darling I want no part of your America, but my portion of America which my ancestors built on their backs belongs to me and I don’t need or want your acceptance! Whatever you think of yourself you are the only one in that club and it must be very lonely! And about the propaganda of you being superior, well we all know that to be nonsense. The next time you join a board have something of some merti to say or stay silent your lack of anything important to say is deafening. Oh yeah this is from a BLACK WOMAN if you didn’t know now you know. (Accept us in your country your country is Europe go back there!!!!0
I was very disheartened by this discussion. Not from the homosexual argument, but how poorly the arguments were presented. Sheryl Lee Ralph needs to learn the art of mature debate and discussion. I understand being passionate about a cause, but really, debate means allowing another to engage in the discussion. Now, I’m not questioning Bishop Jordan’s knowledge base of the scriptures, but seemingly he should have been able to quote relevant scriptures to this topic. Oh, I forgot, he wasn’t allowed to. Last, but not least, a medical professional, Dr. Ian, should know that the fastest growing population of HIV-positive individuals is “heterosexual black women.” His final comment to Bishop Jordan that it is heterosexuals is false and misleading. In the future, if you would like to air a program such as this, please get people who are knowledgeable in the stats. As an African American physician, I believe that much of why we have the poorest health statisics, is from lack of education and misinformation.
CALVIN…my man…study is the key. You can’t study something to the point and purpose of bringing a justification to what people do that is wrong. God clearly states it is wrong. To say that those in the book of Romans fell because they “worship and idol god” but not because of sex…well, does it not show you that the sex was a way of worship? you worship through words and actions, sex is an action, and action gave worship to the idol gods and the rest follows. The bible references “man” as both. Again, study to know the difference. At times God is saying “he” as it relates to man, and other times God says “he” as it relates to man kind. this would be understood if study habits were applied. (sarcastically said, not in judgement) So, again, manipulation of scripture will leave you very short of the truth, and deep in spiritual death. I am praying for you brotha…example of the times and culture of when scripture was written to be careful of how you find truth…Paul wrote to Timothy about woman being quiet in the churh, silencing themselves before man…(men love this) but the truth is during that time, woman were getting more rights and starting to speak out, asking loudly in church what the preacher was talking about since they were not as educated as their husbands, Paul was saying to get that chaos under control, not to shut woman out of church or to not allow woman to have influence. it was to bring order. but you can see how this can be easily mis-represented?
KIETH BOYKIN IS RIGHT ON THE FACT THE BIBLE WAS USED TO JUSTIFY SLAVERY BUT THER IS A FACT HE IS LEAVING OUT. IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE THAT GOD DOES NOT PERMIT SLAVERY IN ANY FASHION, BUT DURING SLAVERY TIMES WE AS BLACKS DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO READ SO THAT IS SOMETHING WE WOULDN’T KNOW.SECONDLY WHAT WE ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING IS JUST BECAUSE I DISAGREE WITH YOUR LIFE STYLE DOES NOT MEAN THAT I HATE YOU OR THAT I AM PREACHING HATE I AM JUST TELLING THE TRUTH.THE FIRST THING WE HEAR GAY PEOPLE SAY IN DEFENSE TO THEIR LIFE STYLE IS THAT GOD LOVES US ALL BUT THEIR IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOVEING SOMEONE AND LOVEING HOW THEY LIVE.
Madmahd you need to check your history. King James did not write the bible, the bible was named after him because he was the ruler during that era. The King James version of the bible was written by William Tyndale. William Tyndale (1494-1536) Biblical translator and martyr; born most probably at North Nibley (15 miles south-west of Gloucester), England, in 1494; died at Vilvoorden (6 miles north-east of Brussels), Belgium, Oct. 6, 1536. William Tyndale was the Captain of the Army of Reformers, and was their spiritual leader. Tyndale holds the distinction of being the first man to ever print the New Testament in the English language. Tyndale was a true scholar and a genius, so fluent in eight languages that it was said one would think any one of them to be his native tongue. Tyndale was descended from an ancient Northumbrian family, went to school at Oxford, and afterward to Magdalen Hall and Cambridge.
Also I forgot to list the chapter for studying: Genesis 19. As a matter of fact read the entire book of Genesis. God destroyed the city because there was so much sin. Just because the Government or govermental officials are not following God’s word does not make it write. We do not put no man or mankind before God’s Will. The devil can inflitrate our government so to use common law as your justification for wrong doing is not valid or does it provide substance. You will see that God took a Rib from Adam to create Eve, not to create Steve. He said “go be fruitful and multiply.” Biologically speaking, it is impossible for Homosexuals to multiply and be fruitful, that was not God’s original intent. If that’s the case, why didn’t he create all men or all woman on earth.
Ms Moore, this goes to prove that most people who haven’t cracked a bible or many books will only quote what they heard and not what they have studied. They never research what they hear before they start quoting it. Thank you for this insight as I researched your comments. As I stated earlier about Keith Boykins’ comment that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality in the bible is often quoted in the homosexual church. I saw a female pastor in a televised service and he said in these words: “This is what Jesus said about homosexuality.” Then she kept quiet for a minutes and the audience clapped.
Most likely Madmahd quoted something that he has heard and not researched.
Being homosexual is wrong. Having a sexual relationship with a person of the same sex is a sin. The Lord created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.Nobody black or white should accept homosexuality.
The show was a one sided affair due to the bishop not expressing any of his thoughts completely. Mrs. Lee was very overbearing in her opinion and the other guest seemed attack the bishop. Mr. Boykins in my opinion is probably gay and spoke from that perspective, so in his mind of course being gay is not a sin. A lot of the real issue s weren’t addressed and I do believe that DL brothas have definately have attributed the HIV/AIDS increase in the black community. And how dare Mrs. Lee and Mr. Boykins blame the church for gay men not not being men and telling the truth to their spouse. If the down low is the churchs’ fault, then the church is responsible for all of our sinsand everything that we do wrong. And for the the bishop, he did a poor job of being a voice of the church. As a man of God, a ordained minister, not one verse or reference was used to back up anything he said.
God is the same yesterday, today, and forever more. So just because this sick and perverse world has changed to accept killing babies, born or unborn, everybody can do everybody and still be saved and on they way to heaven. If God destroyed two cities because of homosexuality what makes us think now he’s so accepting of it. It’s in the old testament and new testament how it is wrong. Call it all the fancy names you want to domestic partners etc, IT IS WROOOOOOONG!!!
The final say comes from GOD when he will say depart from me ye worker of iniquity and all the supporters and cheerleaders for homosexuals will go with them to their final destination and it won’t be with GOD if he says depart from me.
And no you are not born like that it is a choice just like it is a choice for those who choose to be alcoholics or addicts. You make decisions based on experiences ie molestation, rape etc and that seed could have been planted at a young age but you are not born that way and if by chance you were that’s why the Bible says you must be Born Again!
I have read everything that was posted and everyone seems to be making some valid points. However,the Bibledoes speak against Homosexuality and also gives the consequences of this. God did not create us to go against the nature affection of a man to a woman. and visa- versa. But we with our infinte minds changed the gift of loving some and receiving that love to fit our own selfish and crazy thinking. Most women that becomeinvolved with another woman usually use the excuse of being hurt by a man and vowing never to let that happen to them again because another woman knows what another wants. ( wrong) it’s a excuse to justify what you are doing. and visa versa how do I know I’ve been there and done that. also we experiment with this thing and then we open up an door for the Devil to come in and place all kinds of perversion in our lives remeber the song don’t let the Devil ride if you let him drive he’ll want to drive so don’t let him ride. which means ( let him in). the Bible says that my people are destroyed for a lack of knowlegde. God does not dispise the person but he hates the sin. God is lovingand gives us choices. we decide who andwaht we are going to be.
I don’t know where everyone else is at but here where I am from, (Houston TX) homosexuality is out in the open and exceptable. It has become a way of life sort of. They no longer or ashamed and in the closet.
I find it quite interesting that people are speculating that homosexuality is genetic, a choice, a birth defect, etc… The funny thing is, unless your gay, you are hardly qualified to make such a statement. Stick to what you know, which isn’t homosexuality. Also, who in their right mind would choose a life of persecution, ridicule, or even death, just for the sake of being a homosexual? Use common sense people, then again, sense isn’t so common. The statment that Homosexuality is a choice is definitely on my list of “Ignorant statements of the Year”. Yes there are quite a few passages in the Bible that “seemingly” contradict homosexuality; however, I’d emplore all individuals to not just read the Bible, but study it along with other pertinint historical texts. That’s why it’s called “Bible Study”, not “Bible Read”. I think it’s quite baffling how Homosexuality is a much hotter topic than Murder, adultry, spousal abuse, etc.. Much quicker to point the finger at a homosexual than anything else. But, it’s somewhat understandable because, above anything, many people find it repulsive. But, may I also remind folks that the Bible never passes judgment on the person, but rather the ACT. So the statement that being a homosexual has undoubtedly got to be the dumbest statement I’ve ever heard. It’s always the actions that have gotten people into trouble with God, not their state of beings. Not so sure why that concept is so difficult. But, I do think that many posters here are making some pretty compelling arguments on both sides of the coin. But, the way I see it is, homosexuals can’t procreate; yet, is it everyone’s destiny to procreate? Also, if one takes the word litterally on the matter, inconsistenceis arise ( Oh my!! Inconsistency in the Bible? How can this be?). The same can be said if the Bible was interprety figuratively. That’s why, the Bible has to be approached and read with the aid of the HOLY Spirit so that you may be blessed with discernment and knowledge. If you’re not praying for that before you read, you are bound to look stupid trying to quote something. The main thing is God loves all of us, murderers, adulterurs, molesters, homosexuals, modern day Pharisies, liars, and cheaters. He wants for all of us to have life and have it more abundantly and to spend the rest of our lives in his presence. Any sin threatens to disconnect us from him. So, as long as that is kept in mind, we all would be in a much better place!! No hate, just much love, always and forever.
For those of you who are responding and referencing history, here is some historical information. Look-up and read for yourself, don’t take others comments for face value:
Evidence for slavery predates written records. It can be found in almost all cultures and continents. Slavery can be traced to the earliest records, such as the Code of Hammurabi in Mesopotamia (~1800 BCE.), which refers to slavery as an already established institution. The forced labor of women in some ancient and modern cultures may also be identified as slavery. Historically, most slaves were captured in wars or kidnapped in isolated raids, but some persons were sold into slavery by their parents as a means of surviving extreme conditions. Numerically, most slaves were born into that status, to parents who were enslaved. Slavery has existed, in one form or another, through the whole of recorded human history — as have, in various periods, movements to free large or distinct groups of slaves. According to the Biblical Book of Exodus, Moses led Israelite slaves out of ancient Egypt — possibly the first written account of a movement to free slaves. Later Jewish laws (known as Halacha) prevented slaves from being sold out of the Land of Israel, and allowed a slave to move to Israel if he so desired. The Cyrus Cylinder, inscribed about 539 B.C.E. in Persia, abolished slavery and allowed Jews and other nationalities who had been enslaved under Babylonian rule to return to their native lands.
The statement was made that “Religious leaders used the Bible, not to challenge the masters, but instead to control the slaves, to forbid the slaves to revolt against their masters. In keeping with all of that, it was forbidden for the slaves to learn how to read, so they had no access to the rest of the scripture. No way to put this understanding of slavery into a larger context. Instead, they only heard the things their masters wanted to share with them about the appropriate Christian relationship between master and slave.”
When we look at this controversy and the support that has been found in the scriptures for the oppression of black people, it’s not surprising that we find that we still have racism today. Many people will still turn to arguments like these in scripture to defend a view that would make white people superior and black people inferior. It is a challenge for us as people of faith to search the scriptures. To consider them prayerfully, so that we might understand what God is indeed saying to us in the scriptures.
Jeffery in San Antonio I have to respectfully disagree with you. I think you need to do a little more study of the history my friend. Ask any Jew and they will tell you that one is not condemned to hell for homosexuality or acting on it; it is only the stupid christian, I should say the so called modern christian that thinks this way because of his own cultural prejudice. If you look at Helenistic Rome and what Paul is addressing, the focus is on the fact that they are worhiping idols and Paul crealy states for this reason God will destroy you! Sure there is sex going on, I did not say that it was not going on. However, the reason clearly for the destruction of Rome was because of the Idol worship – the sex was just the ritual, that is without question – read it again! I am going to give you another situation that is like this: remember in the book of Exodus, the jews were coming out of Egypt and they built a golden calf to a pagon god. There were also having an orgy to the calf that consisted of all kinds of sex (homosexual and heterosexual) as God had the conversation whith Moses, he told him he was going to clearly destroy them because he had just showed them an example of his power and they dare to worship something other than him – does this remind you of something (Romans chapter 1 ). God does not even mention to him about the sex acts, his focus is the idolotry, he tell Moses he will destroy them because they have commited a sacrament to another god. This is the same situation in Leviticus as well; you need to get off you back side and start to look at some history and you can see the real understanding of the prophets. Jesus was hated by the Jews for the most part because he exposed them for being a stiff neck people that had lost their spirituality in respect to the word – they we legalist and that was their sin. Jesus was a context reader of the holy scripture – your problem along with most of you christians that think you know so much about the word is that you don’t study with the fullness of the word – history will always give you how the word is to be understood. To be truthful about it all you christians that talk about the word without any history, iso Jesus and exo Jesus, for the most part are apostates and don’t even know it – you can never truly understand the real intent of the prophets. Remember scripture states there will be a large group who think they are going to heaven and God will not even know them, most of you fit in that category! Sorry but that is just the truth!
To Big D, I am talking about something that I haven’ experienced……I experimented w/lesbianism but just as I decided to experiment w/it I gave it up and walked away and there’s not one day that goes by that I even think about going back to the horrible lifestyle. I chose to experiment because I was looking for love in all the wrong areas. I also looked for it in drugs, different men both married and single, women, toys, stripping at clubs, you name it been there done that so I am talking from experience—AND AGAIN I SAY IT IS A DECISION TO BE GAY
GOD HAD A SPECIFIC PURPOSE FOR CREATING MALE AND FEMALE. 1ST FOR COMPANIONSHIP IN A WAY THAT HE MEANT FOR ONLY M/F INTERACTION AND 2ND TO PROCREATE. AS CREATED BEINGS OF GOD, OUR 1ST PRIORITY SHOULD ALWAYS BE TO ASK GOD WHAT WAS HE THINKING WHEN HE CREATED MALE AND FEMALE? DO WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT GOD IS IN AGREEMENT WITH ACTIONS OF SEXUAL INTERCOURSE BETWEEN SAME SEX PEOPLE THAT ARE IN NO HUMANLY WAY POSSIBLE ABLE TO CARRY OUT HIS PLAN OF PROCREATION. EVERYONE’S ASKING WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY? LEV 18:22, 20:13-23, ROMANS 14-32. GOD DOESN’T HATE HIS CREATION. EVERYTHING GOD CREATED IS GOOD. WHAT WE MUST UNDERSTAND IS THE CHOICE THAT HE HAS GIVEN US TO FOLLOW HIS INSTRUCTIONS THROUGH HIS HELP OR OUR OWN SELF GRATIFICATION. EITHER WAY THE BIBLE SAYS WE WILL HAVE TO ANSWER FOR THE DEEDS WE DO IN THIS BODY AND WITH THIS BODY. SIN IS SIN. A DRUG ADDICT, DRUNK, ECT., IF YOU’RE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS WITH YOUR JUNK, THEN I CAN’T CRITIQUE HOW YOUR ACTIONS AFFECT MY WORLD, BUT WHEN YOU COME OUT THEN YOU HAVE GIVEN ME THE POWER TO DEFEND MY SPACE. HOMOSEXUALITY IS IMMORAL AND NASTY AND TO SEE IT IS DISGUSTING!
Grace and Peace
One thing I noteiced is a fundamental issue. People say “Jesus never said this, Jesus never said that.” Lets evaluate…
John 1 says “In the begining was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God” Later is says “The Word became flesh and we beheld His Glory”. The references Jesus. Jesus is the Word of God manifested in the flesh. Yes, this includes Leviticus too.
The first thing Jesus spoke in the temple when he began his ministry was “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me”. He did not just make it up. He was reading from the book of Isiah (Old Testament). This proves Jesus believed and followed the law. We are not under the law but the law is not nullified either.
Jesus also said “I come to fullfill the Law”. I say again Jesus is the Word of God. Why did God destroy the Earth the second time with the flood? The Bible says “Every did what they felt was right in their own eyes”. This is not all that different than today.
In Revelation 2:12 speaks to the church of Pergamos. This symbolizes the state of compromise. This holds fast to His name but Jesus has things against them…
“You hold to the doctrine of Balaam… eat the things sacrificed to idols and commit sexual immorality. Rev. 20:14.
God is not about compromise. His Word (Jesus) is his Word.
Knowlege to change your life,
Bryan
IN JESUS NAME,I BELIEVE HOMOSEXUALS CAN BE HEALED AND DELIVERED BY THE POWER OF GOD. JESUS SAID,IN MY NAME YOU WILL CAST OUT DEVILS, AND I HAVE GIVEN YOU POWER TO TREAD UPON SERPENTS AND SCORPIONS. KNOWING THIS, HOMOSEXUALS AND BISEXUALS HAVE OPPORTUNITY TO BE REDEEMED AND HEALED BY THE POWER GOD HAS GIVEN TO HIS PEOPLE IN THE CHURCH, BY PRAYER OR LAYING ON OF HANDS TO CAST OUT THE HOMO OR BISEXUAL SPIRIT. JOHN 3:17-18 JESUS SAID FOR GOD SENT NOT HIS SON INTO THE WORLD TO CONDEMN THE WORLD; BUT THAT THE WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED. HE THAT BELIEVETH ON HIM IS NOT CONDEMNED: BUT HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, BECAUSE HE HAD NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. I SAY, THERE’S POWER IN THE NAME OF JESUS TO SEPARATE THE HOMO AND BISEXUAL SPIRIT FROM ANYONE. I WOULD URGE HOMOSEXUAL/BISEXUALS KNOWN AS SODOMITES IN BIBLICAL TERMS TO READ ISAIAH 1:10-20 TO KNOW THE POINT OF VIEW OF A PROPHET NAME ISAIAH WHOM RECEIVED FROM THE SPIRIT OF GOD HIS THOUGHTS CONCERNING SODOMITES, IN HIS PRESENCE(GOD) WHEN BRINGING THEIR OFFERINGS AND BEING IN THE CONGREGATION. I SAY, IN JESUS NAME YOU CAN BE HEALED WHETHER MOLESTED OR FALLING WEAK TO THE VOICE OF SATAN. AMEN
Black gays and lesbians are welcome to bigblackconnect.com where blacks and admirers meet to enjoy romance hot dating.
Why do people act as if though being gay or lesbian is something new? Why do they think people can turn their feelings on and off. If ur a str8 male do u think its fair for someone to say str8 people should be banned because they are str8? or u are banned because you are black. Its the same you are who u are and i dont think GOD makes mistakes…because believe it or not their are MILLIONS of gay and lesbians in this world. black folks and women fought for rights they did not always have…come on folks..wake up..dont be so brain dead that you dont see whats going on. white folks control all this …they are the ones who program u to think what u think…and thats sad. too much shyt goin on in this world for that
PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT PROCREATION AND ALL OF THAT FOOIE BUT WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT ABLE TO PROCREATE NOT ALL WOMEN AND MEN CAN HAVE CHILDERN SO THAT LAME AZZ LINE FOLKS CAN STOP SAYING. THERE IS A REASON FOR EVERYTHING. IF EVERY PERSON WAS ABLE TO HAVE KIDS … DONT U THINK WE WOULD BE A TAD BIT OVER POPULATED? COME ON THINK PEOPLE. HALF THESE FOLKS DONT EVEN KNOW THE BIBLE THEY JUST REPEAT WHAT THEY HEARD FROM THEIR PASTOR OR SOMEETHING SOMEONE ELSE HAS QUOTED. GOD MAKES NO MISTAKES. SO I DOUBT THAT ITS A MISTAKE THAT MILLIONS OF FOLKS LOVE FOLKS OF THE SAME SEX. Y BE MAD ABOUT IT? WHY EVEN WORRY ABOUT IT? WHO CARES WHO IS SLEEPING WITH WHO? WORRY ABOUT THAT WAR OVER THERE IN IRAQ WHERE FOLKS ARE DYING EVERYDAY CARE ABOUT THAT. CARE ABOUT THE ALL THE BLACK FOLKS THAT AINT GOT HEALTH CARE AND WHITE FOLKS ARE AROUND WHITE THE “NOOSE” THING AGAIN. COME ON PEOPLE. WE ARE A BETTER RACE. I HATE THAT BLACK STR8 MEN SEE A GAY MAN THE 1 ST THING THEY SAY IS EWW.? WHY? I DONT GET IT. WHITE PEOPLE USE TO AND SOME STILL DO LOOK AT US AND SAY EWW SO Y WOULD WE WANT TO DO THAT TO PEOPLE. STOP AND THINK FOR URSELVES SOMETIME
“HALF THESE FOLKS DONT EVEN KNOW THE BIBLE THEY JUST REPEAT WHAT THEY HEARD FROM THEIR PASTOR OR SOMEETHING SOMEONE ELSE HAS QUOTED.”
Tis better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Everyone keeps misinterperting the scripture he without sin cast the first stone to pacify people who are choosing to live in the sin of homosexuality. The word of God declares that homosexuality is a sin!!!! For 1 thing Jesus made it clear that he did not come to change the law but to fulfill the law. In the Old Testament GOD the FATHER says the HOMOSEXUALITY is an abomination. Leviticus18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. 23 Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion.
The Holy Spirit through Pauls states that homosexuality is sin and even tells the end result if acceptance of Jesus Christ does not occur in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10: 9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
The word of god declares that we are new creatures in Jesus Christ and that all things have become new. When you truly accept Christ as Savior he changes your heart so that what you used to do you do not desire to do anymore. I am living witness and testimony.
To misnister, I wasn’t specifically singling you out, so I’m not sure why you addressed me. But I repeat myself, homosexuality is not a choice; yet, homosexual ACTS is a choice. Again, why would someone choose to harbor feelings such that they will be hated, persecuted, threatened, oppressed, or even killed? Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. In your case, you may have CHOSEN to act on certain feelings or urges, but you did NOT choose to act on them. It’s all a state of mind that, with prayer, meditation, etc.. can be overcome. Different reasons may have brought you to that “dark” place but, I am glad that you apparently have done so. But, also, one cannot speak for everybody on this manner. If people really wanted to do some good, then they’d stop trying to find one simple solution to this issue and attack this using a holistic approach. Then, maybe then, Homosexuality wouldn’t be as much of an issue at it is now. Much love.
And another comment. It just occured to me that me that “adulturer rights” is no issue. “Liar rights” is not an issue. ” Idolatry Rights” is no issue. I could go on and on. So the quest ion is, why is “Gay rights” such an issue? Rights are something that is guaranteed to every citizen of this country by virtue of the constitution. Murderers, molesters, and theves are a little different, of course. I don’t think anyone would want to risk being a victim of one of these types of individuals by letting them loose on society, that’s why we have jails and prisons. So that these elements are prevented from inflicting further harm on people and society as a whole. So, another question is, how are homosexuals affecting your quality of life? Is the mere fact of their existence sickening you to the point where you can’t work, take care of your children, worship as you may? Somehow, I think not. Are the interfering with your right to the kingdom of heaven? No they are not.They are hurting no one but THEMSELVES. So why punish them, in some instances, worse than we punish those who mentally and physically do harm to us? Makes no sense, but then again, it does, knowing the nature of humanity. Again, rights are something guaranteed to everyone, unless he/she does something so heinous, he/she cannot be trusted in the midst of others. So again, this discussion should not be.
Discrimnation is WRONG and IMMORAL. We as Black people, should especially be sensitive to that. I could, of course, understand if an individual was flaunting their homosexuality and acting in a rather guady manner. Then, rightfully so, there should be an issue. But, that doesn’t disbar people from speaking their opinons on the matter. If they don’t approve then that’s just it. In this country, we also have freedom of speech.
Bottom line, instead of all the hate, condemnation, discrimination, and hypocracy, we should all approach this issue holisticly as to find some family of solutions, and love are lesbian, gay, bi brothers and sisters. Perhaps then, the issue will diminish over time. And, I reiterate, the same applies to our murderers, molesters, thieves, adulterers, etc… If God can forgive, than so can we. We are all challenged to be like Jesus (and yes that is in the Bible and I dare someone to look it up). While Jesus did do his share of preaching, he also walked among the destitute. I’d love to see my “Bible Thumpers” jump on that one. It’s ever so easy to degrade, decry, and condemn. But to love and to forgive, is something totally differant and is quite a challenge given our world today. Again, all things are possible through God. Much love
Al and Mrs. Moore how dare you make accusations that I have not done my homework! If you are going to talk history maybe you should do your do dilligence and crack a book or since you have a computer at least google it. The King James version of the bible was made in 1611 not in the 1500’s. William Tyndale translated the bible from old english to early modern english. He did not write the king james bible. The king james was written by 54 scholars that used the bulk of Tyndales translations. I never said that King James I actually wrote the book I said that he endorsed it meaning he authorised the book. Why didn’t you challenge me on the earlier bible that spoke of the “hammitic curse”? Probably because you aren’t aware of it and don’t know how to research it. The fact that homosexuality is unnatural goes without question but what are you going to do with them because they are still gods children? These are questions that your Eurocentric Christianity can’t handle because it is unnatural. Ms. Moore feel free to challenge me further and Al don’t say a word until you read a book!!!!!!
I is imperative that we look at this in the eyes of GOD. Homosexuality is a “SIN” yes but judging people is “SIN” also and that also needs to remembered. Keith needs to know that the church by the laws of God has the duty of calling out sin not shaming people if the black church has done any thing to hurt people it has been in the area of shaming people for their sin. Judgement will begin at the house of GOD and several of these holy rolling pastors will be in flames after GOD gets done with them. Jesus when he spoke of right and wrong still did it in a humble manner and in love. Not with anger and hatred that is what set him apart from those who were strictly doing it based on the laws of the day. One thing that the Keith and Sheryl need to understand is that GOD said that it was wrong period not us GOD. Also the stigma of Gay/Lesbian relationships comes from society and the inferiority aspect that was placed on black back in slavery. Don’t blame the black church for attempting to do the will of GOD blame them for not doing it full circle and for not doing it in love. The word of GOD designed to cut and then to heal the wound. GOD must first cut off of you what he feels does not belong then he will bandage you back up so that you can heal. Over all homosexuality is a sin homo-meaning the same sexuality meaning male or female. At the end of the day you must know that regardless of what and how you choose you will pay for it later and the price whether you judge, sin, fornicate, practice, homosexuality, kill, steal, gossip, it is all sin and the price you pay will be equal or greater becasue in GOD’s eyes sin is just that sin.
Madmahd, it was not a challenge, it was a statement to force you to back up your comments with supporting information. You made the comment that King James was gay, but did not elaborate so you were misleading those who are reading the blogs to assume that King James wrote the bible; therefore, I merely presented some facts to lead people in the right direction to research for themselves. The difference is I am not just throwing out things I heard, I am also providing names and facts that can be researched by goggling (as you stated) or at your local library. To me you were sounding like that preacher that was on the show Sunday throwing out information but not backing it up w/facts (no disrespect intended with that comment). And as far as your comment about cracking open a book, how do you think I knew about Tyndale. You are not educating me, I knew he translated it, but I also wanted people to know the mere fact that King James did not write the bible, which you did not state. The original bible as you stated, was written in a language that could only be interpreted by the Catholic church; therefore, King James ordered Tyndale to translate it into the native language so that it could be read by all.
I am not on here to debate, I want to help clear up any misconceptions by forcing our fellow peers to go read and study for themselves and to not take face value what someone posts on the blogs. As for the church, people always scrutinize the church and say that it judges, well you are correct, the church is made up of judgers, hypocrites, adulteress, drug attics, alcoholics, etc. However, the church can be seen as the house for the sick, at least those people chose to go to church, its a start. I don’t attend church because of the people who attend, I attend to worship with others who are not perfect like me. If they were perfect there would be no need for Jesus dying for our sins so don’t get caught up on the membership. To further my teachings of the bible and yes you have to be selective on the church you attend because there are some shepards who are misleading the sheep, but when I go to church I don’t worship the pastor either, its like choosing a college to attend, they have teachers who are accredited and have studied and have the creditentials to teach; therefore, you choose the school that you think is best for you. The same goes for the church, you choose the church that is best for you and encourages you to study on your own. I don’t take what a preacher says for face value, I go read my chapters myself and ask God for understanding just as you would if you were in school to prepare for a test. As Christians our test will be at judgment day, so you can continue to talk down about the preachers, the church and the Christian community, but the final say is left with God. No sin is greater than any other, but we cannot be passive Christians who do not speak up against wrong when its presented. If homosexuality is wrong say so, if fornicating is wrong say so, if gambling is wrong speak up. There is nothing wrong with a gimper for God who doesn’t want to sit back and be passive. Pray and allow God to speak through you and proclaim what is right from wrong. Now in Jesus Name I pray that all will try him for your self or least Google, go to the library and educate yourself! Have a Blessed Day.
The Bible: The writings which eventually were gathered together and came to be known as “The Holy Bible” were written over a period of 1500 years by more than 40 different authors living on 3 different continents (Asia, Africa, and Europe). While the text itself was penned by the hands of its various human authors, the ultimately divine origin of Scripture is testified to numerous times within the text itself and has been repeatedly confirmed throughout history by its steadfast integrity and reliability.
The Bible comes from two main sources – Old and New Testaments – written in different languages. The Old Testament was written primarily in Hebrew, with some books written in Aramaic. 400 B.C. The Old Testament began to be translated into Aramaic. This translation is called the Aramaic Targums. This translation helped the Jewish people, who began to speak Aramaic from the time of their captivity in Babylon, to understand the Old Testament in the language that they commonly spoke. In the first century Palestine of Jesus’ day, Aramaic was still the commonly spoken language. For example maranatha: “Our Lord has come,” 1 Corinthians 16:22 is an example of an Aramaic word that is used in the New Testament.
250 B.C. The Old Testament was translated into Greek. This translation is known as the Septuagint. It is sometimes designated “LXX” (which is Roman numeral for “70″) because it was believed that 70 to 72 translators worked to translate the Hebrew Old Testament in Greek. The Septuagint was often used by New Testament writers when they quoted from the Old Testament. The LXX was translation of the Old Testament that was used by the early Church.
45- 95 A.D. The New Testament was written in Greek. The Pauline Epistles, the Gospel of Mark, the Gospel of Luke, and the book of Acts are all dated from 45-63 A.D. The Gospel of John and the Revelation may have been written as late as 95 A.D.
1611 A.D. The King James Version into English from the original Hebrew and Greek. The King James translators of the New Testament used the Textus Receptus as the basis for their translations.
The King James Version was translated from Erasmus’ printed Greek New Testament which made use of only five Greek manuscripts the oldest of which dated to the 1,100 A.D. These manuscripts were examples of the Byzantine text-type.
The NASV and the NIV make use of the United Bible Societies 4th Edition 1968 of the New Testament. This edition of the Greek New Testament relies more heavily on the Alexandrian text-type while making use of all 5,664 Greek manuscripts.
Ms. Moore I never said that King James wrote the bible I clearly stated “ENDORSED”. Tyndale was burned at the stake for heresy and treason in 1536 so how could King James the I order Tyndale to write anything in 1604 to 1611? You stated before that you didn’t want the bloggers mislead. Ms. Moore, you gave the bloggers the “eurocentric” encyclopedia definition of the bible. That’s well and fine but does that definition justify subjecting a group of people to chattel slavery for all eternity and if not why would we embrace the very religion that justified it? The remark about “cracking open a book was directed at Al but I do notice that the bulk of your argument is based on Eurocentric scholars. I emplore you to read some books by Ivan VanSertima, John Henrik Clarke, and Dr. Yosef A. A. Ben-Jochannan to give you some more insight on our history.
I must say that it is nice to see so many differing opinions on the subject without everyone defaming each other. I am a Christian, but I must be honest and say that I sin each and every day. I am trying to let Christ lead my life and order my steps, but it is oh so hard. Homosexuality has always been a part of society, but when did it become the “cool” thing to do? Christians are accused of being hate mongers for espousing their views that homosexuality is a sin, but someone must be the voice of reason in this desperate age. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. I know I’m called on mine all of the time so I don’t anything wrong with saying that homosexuality is wrong. That isn’t hateful. It’s extremely loving to try to save someone’s soul. We need to be told the truth more often and stop accepting what society has deemed as the right and wrong. God has written what is right and wrong and that is the teaching that needs to be done. We don’t need to be more accepting, we need to be more discriminating in what we say is acceptable behavior in society. Cause I don’t know about yours, but my God is a discriminating God.
Hmm.. the show was an interesting discussion on homosexuality. My position on homosexuality is that it is a sin, but I do believe in embracing the sinner just as I embrace any sinner. Jesus loves all of humanity, but he has made it clear that in order to beome part of the kingdom of God we must be obedient to His Word. I believe the Bible is the Word of God and it states clearly that Homosexuality is a sin. I believe that the intense attention to this sin is due to the social impacts of this sin. For homosexuality is no more a sin as steal lying and gossiping is. It is from all sin we are called to cease from engaging in. This is an important dialog, whihc I have had with the youth of my church and it is full of conflict and struggle to understand the right way for us as a people. In the end it comes to the individual believe and trust in God and how I will egage the larger socity for God’s glory.
Pastor Dave
Thank you Madmahd, I am always open to new literature. I enjoy reading several pieces of literature and comparing them to see where there may be discrepancies. This helps me to research further. The truth is, none of us where there during those ages so all we have is the accounts and testimonies that are written from those that were there. I wouldn’t mind going on a pilgrimage one day to see those aforementioned countries and how diverse the cultures are. I posted some information earlier that referenced slavery being around even before African Slavery. We see it in the movies that depict Ancient Rome, etc. During that era, slavery was part of the culture, the norm, the bible is an account of what happened during that time. Its as if you Madmahd were to start writing a book in 2008 of everything that is going on in the US. Years later after you are gone people will read it and have the same questions, why did they allow those things to continue, why didn’t the government step up. Jesus purpose was to preach God’s word, he talked about hatred and loving they neighbor, he gave them princples to follow to reach the Kingdom of God, but as humans do, they listen to what they want to and do what they want so of course they continued on with the slavery (free Will). Now does that mean at judgement day they weren’t punished, we won’t know until our Judgement day. All we can do is believe, have faith and act accordingly. To each its own belief, but that doesn’t mean people won’t speak up about wrong doings or things that are unnatural. I support everyone’s belief’s as long as it doesn’t incriminate me, harm me, endanger me, etc. However, if you are going to believe in something stand firm, research it and be able to support views. Not only research your beliefs, research others so that you can have enough information to make an educated decision. Lastly, make sure you can live with the conclusion of your decision, meaning make sure that whatever you believe in is something you are comfortable with if you were to die.
However, I have one question, how can racism exist? I mean if we all came from Adam and Eve that means we all are mutts (not to be taken out of context), but no one is pure, we are all mixed up and come from descendants that have migrated and inter-mixed. Think about it, if you moved to Africa and stayed all of your life, don’t you think you would adapt, meaning don’t you think your skin would get darker, your hair may turn to a different texture, etc. The same changes would occur if you moved to Europe, Asia (not so much that you would develop slanted eyes, but you get the point). Our bodies, language, mannerism will adapt; therefore, if we came from Adam and Eve, we came from their children and their children’s children, those who migrated to a place they called home and of course adapted. That’s why I can agree with the article. “How did different skin colors come about?” It is even true in our culture, in certain states their is a melting pot, thus resulting with children who are bi-racial, history repeats itself so why wouldn’t you believe this to be true in the biblical era.
Also in refernce to your question about King James and Tyndale, read below:
Tyndale’s Old and New Testaments were the first English translation of the scriptures taken directly from the original Hebrew and Greek languages. They remain, as the Times of London put it, “the basis of all English language Bibles until the recent fiascos. It’s phrases and cadences, both homely and pungent, are so woven into the language as to be rarely recognised as the work of an individual author [i.e., Wm. Tyndale].” Tyndale’s 1526 New Testament was the first ever printed in English. In the 1530’s he also translated the first fourteen books of the Old Testament. He thus became the first man to translate anything from Hebrew into English — as Hebrew was virtually unknown in England at that time.
Here is where the 1611 comes into play:
The sages assembled by King James to prepare the Authorized Version of 1611 (KJV), so often praised for their “group inspiration,” took over Tyndale’s work almost in its entirety. Over eighty-five percent of the Authorized Version’s New Testament and the first half of the Old Testament are taken directly from Tyndale’s
William Tyndale (sometimes spelled Tindall or Tyndall) (c. 1494 – 1536) was a 16th century Protestant reformer and scholar who translated the Bible into the Early Modern English of his day. Although a number of partial and complete Old English translations had been made from the 7th century onward, Tyndale’s was the first to take advantage of the new medium of print, which allowed for its wide distribution. In 1535 Tyndale was arrested, jailed in the castle of Vilvoorde outside Brussels, Belgium for more than a year, tried for heresy and treason and then strangled and burnt at the stake in the castle’s courtyard.[1]
Much of Tyndale’s work eventually found its way into the King James Version (or Authorised Version) of the Bible, published in 1611, which, though nominally the work of 54 independent scholars, is based primarily on Tyndale’s translations.
Are you familiar with John Wycliffe? I’m sure you are but I would like for you to read my posts before you make comments. As I have stated all of your comments are based on a Eurocentric theology. It probably would help if you knew that there is a difference in chattel slavery and the slavery you spoke of in ancient times. It would also help if you knew that cvilization, religion, arts, astrology,and astronomy came out of Africa by way of Egypt (Kemet). And finally, I would like to address “racism”. Racism is a word solely to empower a group of people to a supreme status by degrading others through power, economics, and influence. Hence the word “WHITE SUPREMACY”. Have you heard of the word Albinism look it up sometime it might change your perspective on the word race? You keep saying that I can’t teach you anything but hopefully this will help.
Mr Jordan is correct in that the Scripture teach Homosexuality to be a sin. I would like to know the Scripture that teaches slavery is ok and that teaches discrimination against women. There are women in Scripture who held powerful positions. God has certain standards as to our conduct. Men and women are not equal, dispite how we feel or would like things to be. We each have a role to play.
Ephesians 5:25
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Ephesians 5:28-33
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
1 Peter 3:7
7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
Colossians 3:19
19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
There are many more Scriptures that speaks about women and how they are to be treated. Of course we can choose to ignore them…and continue in certain sins.
I believe Mr Jordan to be a false teacher. I hope BET will find the courage to invite a Bible teaching Pastor to sit in on one such discussion. A Pastor who teaches Scripture and nothing but Scripture. Not one who claim to be a “master prophet” and ask for money in order for one to be blessed. God require no payment for His blessings. Jesus Christ is the mediator between man and God. I admire Sheryl Lee’s passion on the subject. However tolerance is not taught in Scripture. Sin is anything against God’s will. We are to hate sin…not the sinner. We are all sinful, we should not be happy or continue in our sinful ways upon the realization that such ways are indeed sinful. This is rather redundant, however I will say again, two men having relations cannot multiply, neither can two women. God created Adam and Eve. He said be fruitful and multiply. We may not agree with Scripture, and we may choose to continue living in our sinful way, that is our right. Just because we don’t believe Homosexuality is wrong, doesn’t make it right. God said it is a sin….no different from any other sin. Therefore that is what it is. God is the authority on ALL things. We just choose to ignore that fact. It is unnatural and sinful. We can discuss it until time is no more. It is wrong. God did not intend it to be so.
You cannot teach if you are bias. You are not speaking of love, which is my language, you keep trying to hold onto and bring up every term related to racism, slavery and so forth. Have you ever heard of Hermeneutics. Well every piece of literature you and I have referenced includes and then its goes on further because you include your own Hermeneutics. Now your Mr. Van Sertima wrote, The Lost Sciences of Africa: An Overview”. In it he presents early African advances in metallurgy, astronomy, mathematics, architecture, engineering, agriculture, navigation, medicine and writing. He notes that such higher learning, in Africa as elsewhere, was the preserve of elites in the centres of civilizations, rendering them very vulnerable in the event (as happened in Africa) of the destruction of those centres. Now my Hermeneutics is that money, power and greed is the reason for our struggle. I took from that description of his book to show that one culture possed something that another culture wanted and stole. I don’t need to include the colors because the underlying theme is that when someone is more powerful, wealthy, educated there will always be hate. Stop making it a race issue. Are you doing that because the wealthy was the Africans, would you have this same arguement if it were vica versa? As I stated history repeats itself, you can see throughout today African Americans fighting each other because of the ol’ mighty dollar. We still from each other, we hurt each other all because we are hating on one another and can’t stand to see another person rise. I won’t just leave it with our culture because all cultures have their share of haters. Money and power causes problems as the theme was coined “more money more problems.” Overall I see the literature as saying the more powerful you are, the more the poor or less off will plot against you. See the difference between you and me is that I read into, not looking for facts to blame somoene, I look for the cause and affect and see how it can be changed so that history can stop repeating itself. Regardless if its Eurocentric or Afrocentric, the same theme is applied, they all include Hermeneutics and that’s why I said you can’t take somethig for face value. You have to read it and find understanding, but not understanding that blames or points fingers. If we keep blaming we will never be able to work together and eliminate the problems that keep re-surfacing. Again these are all my opinions and of course you have yours, but as I said I don’t read the literature to form opinions against a race, I read it to educate myself and to understand why, what, when, where and how.
And if you really read my comment I said that slavery has been around since the beginning of time, the furst human creations. So regardless if I am referring to American Slavery or Chattel Slavery, it rose from the word Slavery (root word). When you speak of Chateel Slavery (The coastal exploration of Africa and the invasion of North and South America by Europeans in the 15th century, and the colonization of the Americas during the next three centuries, provided the impetus for the modern slave trade.)you have to pay homage to the slavery of the A.D. since that’s when it first occured. But tell me this does Chattel Slavery come before or after A.D. and if it does, doesn’t it make since to search back to A.D. to learn where its roots came from and how it became. Furthermore, as I said history repeats itself and a lot of time when it repeats itself its a copy of an original, which leads me to your word Chattel!
Now do I agree with Slavery, NO, but if you keep spotlighting whose race started it or what race was the most evil, people will keep arguing over the races and not the problem. We know the problem, riches were stolen for the benefit of another and the problem carried over and has not been rectified. You can’t be a Victim and be Victorious. So instead of constantly pointing out the “White Supremacy”, why don’t you say OK we know it exists so how do we stop it. We teach our people how to love one another and not fight each other; we teach them to become Entrepreneurs and Capitalists and to support those enterprises. We claim all that was stolen from us back and move forward. It takes to much energy to keep harping instead of exerting that energy into building back up our culture. Instead of preaching what they did to us let’s preach of what we are going to do. There is nothing wrong with knowing your history or where you came from, but to stay stuck in the mind-frame of blaming and not forgiving is not fruitful. I believe the reason it still exists today is because we are too caught up on the “Who” and not the Resolve,” Which is exactly what your so called “European” philosophers want us to do. I don’t mind reading both perspective, but with an open mind and not a mind that’s ready to scream to the world why we should still be separated. This whole blog was about God’s word, distinguishing right from wrong, not for you to question why people read from a bible that endorses slavery, which it doesn’t; it gives accounts of what occurred in history, just as the people you have referenced have done. So Mamahd you continue with your studies and I will continue mine. However, I will continue mine with an open mind, a loving heart and a forgiving attitude.
Be Blessed!
You disappoint me Mrs. Moore. I ask that you read my posts and you still miss my point by a long shot. If I ask to read more African scholars information that is only to have balance in your studies. You are such an intelligent and powerful black woman but would it be too much to ask that you paid a little more attention to the contents of my posts and not make such rash judgements. It’s an old addage “those that forget their history are doomed to repeat it”, I asked you to look up the word Albinism but you give no response. The problem is that you are so positive in your beliefs and your education that you are actually closed-minded to anything that is out of your comfort zone. If I tell you that there is no such thing as race then how do you interpret that I base my comments on race? Race is an inevitability not because of me but because of the society we live in. I thought we were having an intelligent convesation exchanging information but I see I was wrong. You see in my studies I have learned something that your closed mind won’t accept, that god is not the problem it is the religions. Until we find our real place in history we will always have problems. Well at least I learned about who translated the King James version of the bible and I can thank you for that. Only when you realize that you don’t know everything will you truly understand what I am speaking of.
Bless you Mrs. Moore
I honestly think that this topic should not even warrant further discussion. Of all the commandments that we were given, and the laws written in the bible, are they debatable as either being sin or not, because we want to do it. Because ultimately that is what we are debating.
I Corinithians 6:9-1
[9] Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders [10] nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [11] And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
It is really hard to accept what is going on. Why in the world do you people keep comparing homosexuality with being black. Homosexualtiy is in the same category with bestiality. I have had many conversation with homosexuals both lesbians and gay men. I have tried to form an understanding that would possibly lead to an acceptance. The things I have been informed diplay inhumane behavior. There is no other way to put it. Society may want to dress it up and make it look attractive but it is not. And for those who need scripture:
Deuteronomy
Women are not to wear men’s clothing — it’s an “abomination unto the Lord.” 22:5
God says not be bring any whore, sodomite, or dog into the house of the Lord. For “these things are an abomination to the Lord.” Sodomites and dogs are biblical names for homosexuals. 23:17-18
Leviticus
Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22
If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13
s harris what kind of religion are you in that justifies killing anyone?
We could spend all day arguing what the bible does or doesnt say about homosexuality…. we can even debate whether ot’s wrong or right. but one thing we all know….. whether you believe in The Bibile or not…… it says to “love thy brother” it doesnt say “love thy STRAIGHT brother!” and the bible doesnt come with a disclaimer on the back like a diet pill telling you exceptions to the rules! No human being has the right to judge another….yet we do it everyday! i used to date a male cheerleader…. and it would piss me off when people would assume he was gay. “i dunno girl, you betta watch out for him.” but if i were to say that he was on the football team…. no one would ever question his sexuality. the issue hear is not what we blieve is wrong or right. the issue is how much do we believe in the stereotypes that we have tricked our own minds into believing to be true.before we make any more assumptions…. before we debatethis topic any longer…. let’s look deep in ourselves and learn that we are all error making humans. that ALL of us fall short of God’s glory n some way or another…that ALL SIN IS EQUAL acoording to GOD!And for all the christins who are “deeply against and disgusted” by homosexuality…… think about how broke, busted and disgusted you were before you found Jesus! no one came into this world perfect, therfore, all of us are EQUALS in the sense that all are sins are relative.
People. Let me clear something up. People keep misconstruing the word acceptance. You don’t accept the action, you accept the person. We are all a work in progress. I’m not so sure why that’s so difficult to Grasp. I don’t accept a lot of things my mother does, but I still love her to death and that’ll never change (for example). And to the person who commented that bestiality is akin to homosexuality, that has got to be the dumbest, most ignorant comment I’ve ever heard. That makes absolutely no sense at all. Also, A sodomote (i.e. sodom and Gamorah) refers to those who were A) inhospittable to guests, B) were guilty of attempted RAPE and possibly the continual RAPE (force sexual intercourse) of other males and possibly females (even though exact details were never mentioned). And the word “Dog” is NOT the Biblical name for homosexual. The other quotes you use (i.e. women wearing men’s clothing) are taken extremely out of context and it’d probably do yo some good to STUDY the Bible, not simply READ it. Any fool with a 9th grade reading comprehension can read a bible. But, to truly understand the bible takes the help of the Holy Spirit. Pease and Blessings.
To Antoinette, excellent post. It was right on target.
Madmahd, I never appear or want to appear as I know everything. I only want to know Jesus Christ. I did look up Albinism and the only informaiton I found was related to skin diseases so I wasn’t sure if you spelled it corerctly or if I didn’t look it up correctly; therefore, I did not have a response. At no point in my life do I ever want to be closed mind, In Jesus name I pray that I can always hear the truth.
I was thinking about this, the first person to America was an Indetured Servant. In Africa as we know, the people were wealthy. They were kings and quenns of the land. Then of course, Greed was introduced (now again this is my hermeneutics). Of course we know the Africans had slaves, every culture had slaves. Well our own beloved ancestors sold their slaves for firearms, weapons, etc to your Europeans. Therefore, do we blame our ancestors for selling their people for material wealth or do we blame the Europeans for taking our people and treating them bad? Hold on though, if you sold your son to me for a Bentley, would you expect me to respect your son? How could I if you didn’t respect him enough not to trade him for material possesions. Again I do not support the slavery, nor do I agree with it, but as I stated you have to look at the cause and the affect, the who, what, when, where and why. My basic purpose to move pass the race issue was to focus on the cause issue.
Now you have committed the same wrong I have, which I admit, you have judged me and called me closed mind. There is not one person who is not comfortable when they are taken out of there comfort zone, but what I did I stepped out, looked up the information you presented and because I didn’t reply the way you thought I should have I am closed mind? Please refrain in the future in passing judgement. Going forward I will not assume or speak about your character because I don’t know you and the last thing we as Brothers and Sisters of Christ need to do is to call each other out. We all have to work things out and respect each other’s opinions.
I was dissapointed by the Bishop’s lack of training in spiritual warfare. One basic skill in defense of the Bible is paralleled with the question, “How do you defend a lion?… The answer: You Don’t. A Lion can defend itself!” So it is when one questions the authority of God’s Law in his word, The Bible. I know it seems easy for one to “Arm Chair” quarterback when the lights and cameras aren’t on you, but He should have known this question would be asked and he definitely didn’t champion the cause of Christ with his apparent lack of preparation for defending the gospel. His fellow panelist aversion for Christian principles was not an issue of ignorance or lack of Godly love shown to them over and over, rather it is their rebellion against the laws of truth that is known to them from the heart. “Romans 1:18-23 and 2:11-16. This stance on the gospel is not intolerance as some may protest. It is the clearly known truth of God that sinful man chooses to rebel against. Only the one who submits to the Holy laws of God in acceptance of His son Jesus Christ as payment for the wages earn through willful disobedience against such can live in peace with God. Both now and for eternity.
I did not personally see the show mentioned above, however I find it interesting reading all of yalls comments concerning the sinful nature of homosexuality and the some minister’s apparent inability to adaquately defend/convey that the “Bible’s” repeated references to homosexuality or unnatural behavior as abominable, at least in most yalls opinions. I don’t believe that a homosexual who fails to acknowledge the sinful nature of homosexualityt can honestly refer to himself a Christian or believer in anyway–it an obvious oppotunity to criticize the practice of the faith. I mean there’s a huge difference in the psychology of being gay versus the physical behavior of homosexuality, either way the important thing is to repent from it and seek spiritual strength to not repeat it. In the black community, we have always been an accepting people which makes us much vulnerable, but we have also been very judmental and at times unforgiving, I subscribe to us as being the greatest people on this earth–if we could ever get focused and stay on point and own our problems first without pointing the finger at some other race or institution. AIDS/Hiv is a problem for America & the world, and in the black community we’d better figure out what’s important and educate, educate, educate so that better choices can be made in our communities by our folks. Someone mentioned choices in ealier comments and again I submit that we as a people make some really terrible choices, it’s simple let’s choose life, choose to live without homosexuality or DL activity, or iliicit drug use (high risk behavior), abortion, etc.
I must agree with your comments, I watched the show and was outraged. Not just at Bishop Jordan being unable to give evidence of GOD’s displeasure with sexual immorality but the attitude and the rudeness of the other guests. It made me wonder about their sexuality and what were they really defending. Bishop Jordan should have pulled out his bible and went to 1st Corinthians 6:9 and Leviticus 20:11-15. So for the Bible reading Chrisitians you should be familiar with those scriptures one from the old and one from the new. Next time put a minister up to speake GOD’s word who actually has a relationship. It is what it is!
I love every Gay person and want them to come to the saving Knowledge of Christ!
This show was a joke first of all and that is because the Rev. got scared to me. He did not have to be overpowering but just take His stance in God by using Gods word and not his and just leave it alone for the others to prove GOD wrong!
This is crucial issue as the devil has totally perversed sex. Not only should we look at scriptural references but also nature which would quite easily show us that this is not natural. As a man only has one sexual organ and the other is not, no matter how much anyone would like to fool themselves. Designed perfectly for a woman and at climax sperm is produced that is only good for one thing and that is to fertelize an egg which men most surely do not produce. The word of God teaches that men are without excuse even without the Word of God because Nature and our Consciences makes us know that God exists (Romans 1:20). Paul says that God has given people who Practice homosexulity over to a reprobate mind (Romans 1:26-28). Those who do not have these tendencies cannot really understand what a homosexual person is going through so we should be compassionate and pray for them and love them as Christ would. The problem is is that this is being shoved down our throats as right and dare we say it is wrong without being called some kind of a racist, bigot, hateful and incessitive etc (Which i think some of us do take it to far concerning this issue as all have truly fallen short of the glory), but this is in and of itself is doing the same thing by saying i do not have the right to say that Homosexulality wrong or else i could loose even my way of earning a living and also be hated.
One more thing someone A Gipson said that people who lie steal and cheat and do other wrongs get married so why cant gay people? Firstly Gay people also lie, steal cheat and also abussive relationships. Second we all sin but they are marrying someone of the opposite sex with issues, so it is not that you will not have Homosexual feelings but marriage that is a God thing not a man thing is between a man and a woman. Third – withoht marriage is a sin straight up!
God Bless!
this whole discussion sickens me.these people are nothing but nasty perverts.
Lev 18:22-23 “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”
Lev 20:13 “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death.”
1 Cor 6:9 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals”
Rom 1:26-27 “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.”
Only fools avoid the truth!
Jessica Glover on November 9th, 2007
Homosexuality in Black America has become an epidimic. Its like Aids but only nasteir. It is the showing of the end of times. Being gay or a lesbian is agaisnt God. God will punish those who commit this distgusting act. What would even make you attracted to the opposite sex. i say its SPREADING LIKE FIRE, IF YOU PLAY WITH IT YOU WILL GET BURNED. These are just like the bible days of Sodom and Gamor ( may not be spelled right sorry). God will destroy these evil doers.
I agree with you 100%
But Bets isn’t our tv Station, we shouldn’t let whites set the tone for how we think. We need to owe our own media. bets need to close down….
For those of you so passionate about this topic, you should debate it here.
http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/extended-discussion/homosexuality-is-not-a-sin-what-christ-said-and-more/t.22055569/
While I applaud Bishop Jordan’s effort to make his point, he fell short in that he could not name scriptures that dealt directly with the subject of homosexuality being a sin. (Leviticus 18:22) Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. (Leviticus 20:13) If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. These scriptures speak specifically to the subject of God’s position on homosexuality. Now, there will be some who will say that this is Old Testament and we should live under the New Testament. Jesus said (Matthew 5:17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. So we cannot use where a verse is in the bible as an excuse to engage in behavior that God does not condone. However, this should not give us the right to judge someone because of sexual orientation. God loves each of us no matter what state we are in. It is the sin that he hates. So God loves the gay, lesbian, adulterer, fornicator, liar, cheat, thief, backbiter, and the like. It is the act that these individuals commit that is abominable. If we can show God’s love and compassion for others instead of judgement, we can begin to begin to build people up instead of making them hard where they are not willing to hear what we have to say. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
I did catch this show and what I saw was Sheryl Lee Ralph and Kieth Boykin jumping down Prophet’s throat. Everytime he wanted to say something, Sheryl would be rolling her neck and Kieth would co-sign to everything(gang-busters)…They should have had a better panel, but it was entertaining…I will still support the show, and Dr. Ian is cool. You know who could have been a good representation, Pastor Jamall Bryant, that would have been a great show……Much love people…
isn’t it in t he bible that we should as christians embrace the sinners instead of judging them. that is gods test. not for them the sinners but for us the christians. of course as christians we cannot condone this. because it is a sin and really is up to the sinner(homosexuals) whjo in the end will be judged. and i don’t want to be at the pearly gates and find when god opens the book of life and i’m not in there because i judged instead of embraced and loved. on the other hand i really would like thoes coward brothas you know who you are you the ones who act like there not gay but are and then don’t even have the decency to use a condom when being with booth male and females. who they say they love slowly killing them with there heartless lies and betrayel cause they can’t do something as simple as wrap it up for there protection and the ones they love. thats why aids is an epidemic for our people and we can’t count on tyhe white man cause they will take care of their own. black men get va clue eduacate your selves and if your gay be gay don’t drag us (black women who trust you) down with you have a heart or at least a concience.
my belief is that who are we to judge another human being thats a big problem in the world today also everybody worried about what other people do or say.gay people dont bother me there human to.I watched a show on opra that answer the questioned i allways wanted to know,it was people are truly born with the opposite sex,example guys wereborn with vaginas,anso forththey have woman hormones and theopposite ect,the one woman wanted to be a woman but the homones let her live the woman for 30 yrs but she had manly featuresand a penis born with both i think but ,i said to my self. weneed to stop telling them who they should marry because thats why were not the same we are all different, and god made them THE WAY THEY ARE BELIEVE THAT SO HOW CAN YOU SAY HE WONT FORGIVE YOU BECAUSE YOU WERE BORN THAT WAY HE CREATED YOU SO I GOD IS A MERCIFUL GOD HE NO HOW YOU GONNA BE BEFORE YOU BE IT ,I BELEIVE TRULY IN THE BIBLE BUT I NO HOW TO READ INBETWEEN THE LINES THATS ALL AS LONG AS YOU NO YOU HAVE A MERCIFULGOD THATS ALL THAT MATTER .NOT GETTING OFF THE SUBJECT BUT I HAD A NEPHEW WHO JUSTCOMMITTED SUICIED 2MONTHS AGO,AND MY SISTER TOLD MY OTHER SISTER WHO SON DID THAT YOU NO HE IS GOING TO HELL RITE,EXCUSE ME BUT THAT PIST ME OFF BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN YOUR SO QUICK TO JUDGE JUST DONT CARE,AND THIS IS WHAT I TOLD HER WE ALL GREW UP BELIVING THAT BUT NOW THINGS HAVE CHANGED WHO WROTE THE NEW TESTIMENT CHANGING AROUND THINGS SIS YOU HAVE TO READ BETWEEN THE LINE GOD IS MERCIFUL,AND HE IS THE ONLY ONE BESIDES YOUR SON THAT NO WHAT WENT WRONG ANDS WHATS BEEN GOING ON WHO ARE WE TO SAY WHAT HES WAS GOING THREW AS A MAN ,HUSBAND,DAD GOD KNOWS THATS ALL THAT MATTER AND BELIEVEHE IS MERCIFUL BELIEVE THAT TASHA;
I will start by saying that some people will always find a way to justify their immoral behaviors. This is not a political matter or argument, this an arbormination. The almighty GOD condenmed homosexuality and it dosen’t matter what you are or how you feel about it, sin is sin. immorality is a sin before GOD, gay people are just decieving themselves trying to fulfil a satanic influence. GOD wasn’t stupid when he made Adam and Eve. no gay person will ever please GOD because GOD respect his word and will never compromise with anyone. Beside, gay people catch AIDS so easy, the bible say………unless they repent, they shall likewise perish.
look…two men/women egaging in sexual activities with each other is wrong. there is no making it right. who that is without sin cast the first stone…. that’s the line you used. i know Jesus died for all our sins. but i know God destroyed those two cities that had all that man on man woman on woman activity going without a second thought. then no one is born gay. there is no gay gene. that’s the cop out plee. get tired of hearing that b.s. for real. gay genes? come on people. that’s crazier than that medicine for restless leg syndrome. the flesh is weak. the bible says that. so control that or learn how to. if i find i’m not attracted to women and i’m a man or vice versa…then i’d rather not have sex at all. of course the thought is still bad, but the action is worse. i will not compromise that much for my soul’s sake. i love me much more than that. why risk eternal happiness for sin of the flesh such as that for a mere..what? 2 or 3 years if u don’t break up..what? 15 years maybe. God Is merciful, but don’t twist his word. Guidelines were put in place to follow and that is the word of the Bible and this such as being homosexually active is one of those things that crosses those guidelines. i won’t support gay activity. my thought that is if you support it then it grows and it has…And its STILL wrong. how can a pastor marry two men or two women? if they don’t ask themselves the question i ask you. if a pastor continually breaks the rules of God willingly is he really a pastor in the eyes of God or just man. there are rules for the lives of pastors in the bible you know. that one wrong pastor can cause many to perish in the fire…can he not? because if he willingly does sinful things can anything he say be fully clean? for ex. like a kkk minister preaching white supremacy to young people and giving them his frame of thought. so if being gay is wrong by the Bible by which is Gods word…how can any pastor side with it? how can any christian support it? how can you support wrong? how can you support something unchristian period? why would anyone want you to? why would you want to? but i can’t be a good christian by sleeping with my neighbor’s wife willingly over and over can i? why would i plee that God is merciful all the time and willingly do wrong to get a slap on the wrist? we all know that the day of judgement is way more than that so why are we pretending that we don’t know better? i’m not perfect, but i know there are boundaries. i will be judged then and like the songs say…”i just wanna be right.”
We could spend all day arguing what the bible does or doesnt say about homosexuality…. we can even debate whether ot’s wrong or right. but one thing we all know….. whether you believe in The Bibile or not…… it says to “love thy brother” it doesnt say “love thy STRAIGHT brother!” and the bible doesnt come with a disclaimer on the back like a diet pill telling you exceptions to the rules! No human being has the right to judge another….yet we do it everyday! i used to date a male cheerleader…. and it would piss me off when people would assume he was gay. “i dunno girl, you betta watch out for him.” but if i were to say that he was on the football team…. no one would ever question his sexuality. the issue hear is not what we blieve is wrong or right. the issue is how much do we believe in the stereotypes that we have tricked our own minds into believing to be true.before we make any more assumptions…. before we debate this topic any longer…. let’s look deep in ourselves and learn that we are all error making humans. that ALL of us fall short of God’s glory n some way or another…that ALL SIN IS EQUAL acoording to GOD!And for all the christians who are “deeply against and disgusted” by homosexuality…… think about how broke, busted and disgusted you were before you found Jesus! no one came into this world perfect, therfore, all of us are EQUALS in the sense that all are sins are relative.
are u kidding that crap is an abomination to yah and everything he stands for naturally its not right two men or women cant make a child which is what sex is for. anyone defending these people are just like the gays because they want to try and twist things to fit their lifestyle. even god hates and gays are one of those things he hates them. plain and simple their is no defense
ALY,
im sorry hun… but you definitely need to get into the bible “for God so LOVED the world that he gave his only begotten son.” God loved us so much that he snt his son to die for us. He loves us all even when he knows we are gonna screw up. im not saying that i think being gay isnt a sin. however if (according to the bible) sin is sin, then for you to say that God hates gay people is the same as saying that God hates you everytime you sin or do somthing wrong. of course their are concequences for every sin. and God does punish us as all parents punish their children. but just because he punishes us doesnt mean he stops loving us. my motheer pisses me off from time to time, but at the end of the day i love her! we may make god angry when we do things against his will but when we come to him and ask for forgiveness, that’s when he sheds GRACE and MERCY on us. THat’s LOVE not HATE
sweetheart so do you, its several instances where god hates people in the old testament.check the bible abomination to god, all of that love stuff goes out of the window when you spit in yah’s face. dont take my word for it look it up for yourself. dont use other verses to make it better like they do its in black and white ABOMINATOIN.
ok you right….. abomination does mean hate. and in leviticus God talks about how HOMOSEXULITY is an abomination. however, it doesnt say that sinners are an abomination it says that SIN is. So God doesnt hate his people (since we are all sinners) but he does hate the sin….. so God doesnt hate homosexuls, he hates Homoexuality. I know when i have kids one day, i pray to God that my children wont have to deal with the stuggle of homosexuality, however, if they did, i would still love them b/c it would be MY child, and no matter how many times they screw up im still goin to love them. That’s how God feels about us! he knew even before he sent Jesus to die for us that YOU and I were goin to sin and disappoint him. But despite all the things we do to hurt God, he still loves us. im not saying tht this is what you believe, but alot of times people think that if something bad happens to you, then God must hate you. Even alot of Christians think tht once you’re saved then the battle is one. But God takes us through the storms of life to test our faith.
sorry not correct
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95% of yall can’t even write a decent sentence so I find it hard to believe you can even read let alone interpret scripture. The gays will always be around but they can change. At my church, I love everyone except women who have children out of wedlock thats a sin that can’t be undone. Women who give birth to bastard children are ruining this country with their loose morals and unruly children…like them boys that killed Sean Taylor (all raised by Jezabel unwed mothers). Lord Help Us.
I personally think that we as indivuals have no right to judge. leave that up to god, he himself will decide the faith of every man on earth. I am not against nor am i with homosexuality. Everyone has their on preferences in life and what they chose solely is their decision. Who are we to say if it is wrong or right. We are not the one living for them, they are living for themselves. for me as long as it is not affecting me directly, i dont have a problem. Such as to say, if everyone wasnt christian, would you criticise them for that too? would that be considered a sin to not be a certain religion?Everyone human being has their own choices and opinion, so with that said people need to stop being so ignorant and let others live their lives the way they see fit. YOU AREN’T SO CHRISTIAN IF YOU’RE SITTING THEIR JUDGING OTHERS.
No unwed mothers,
I must in form you that i am highly intelligent. Though i do not read the word very often, I’m not sure you do either. Only God Can judge us for our sins. Now you say that 95% of the bloggers can hardly congigate a sentence. With all due respect, the content of your message might as well come from someone who cant put sentence together. Because the information in both messages would be unable to understand and completely inacurate. Of course having a child out of wedlock is a sin. NEWS FLASH HONEY!!!!!!!!! NO SIN IS REVERSIBLE!!!! If sin were reversible then there would be no need for forgiveness. Like when a women loses her virginity before she is married. She can’t get it back. However she can ask for forgiveness. And even though she cant get it back she can make it right with GOD by admiting she was wrong. now you wanna talk about the bible, lets talk about it. The bible says there is no sin greater than another. it also says that to pass judgement is against the will of the Lord. So by you judging unwed mothers, you are no different than them or their (as you would call them) “bastard” children. but that is my point…. we all came into this world as sinners… so no one has the right to make someone fell bad for sinning b/c we ALL HAVE!!!
I am so sick and tired of celeberties Sheryl Lee Ralph) supporting this lifestyle, not to mention the media outlets (this show)that give more time, and understanding to gays and their supporters. Why is it that every time there is a show about gays, people against it have to be viewed as haters. I don’t support a gay lifestyle, and I don’t hate them either. The Word of God says: there is Nothing new under the sun. God gave us a choice, if you choose to fall into sin you will be judged. We need to be accountable for our actions as people whether black or otherwise. I don’t give a pass to a black person who happens to be gay just because he’s black! That’s crazy. Most people just want to fulfill their our lustful desires, no matter who it hurts! If it’s wrong it’s wrong. But we don’t have to worry about judging them God said he would. We can still love people while trying to lead them to Christ! Please get people on the show who can rightfully divide the Word, and present a well informed view of people who are against the homosexual agenda!
I must agree with Kandy. I mean really who cares if they are white, black, orange, or purple. Homosexaulity is not in the plan of God. I believe as Christians we must not judge and try to put somebody in a heaven or hell. The one person whom one might believe is in heaven is probably burning in Hell at this very moment! So please do not call me a hater of Gays because I do not agree with the lifestyle they “CHOSE” to live! I Love all men!
one word abomination
Due to the wonder that is Digital Video Recording, I just saw the episode (a month later). What is amazing to me is that most of those who have left a comment are so prejiduced and don’t even know it. As pointed out in the show, the Bible has been used to justify some of the most unjustifiable things such as: slavery, jim crow laws, the reason whites and blacks can’t marry. First, I believe that the judgement of ANYONE who believes the bible to be the exact word of God is questionable. If any of you decided to pick up a book (which it is apparent that most of you have not do to your grammer, spelling, etc.) You would know that the Bible is not one, but many books, letters, and stories put together in anthology by the order of Emporer Constantine of Rome in the 4th Century; over 300 years after Jesus was born. He included in it what he wanted to, and chose not to include what he didn’t want to. This is the book many of you choose to base your opinion on. I’ll write a book about how everyone should give me their money. I’ll have my friends do the same, put it all together in one book, and tell you all that God said this to me in a dream, and I should be expecting your checks a week later, because that is all it takes for you to put full faith into something.
Second, Jesus never said homosexuality is a sin. In Leviticus, it states that for a man to lie with another man, as he does a woman, is an abomination. Leviticus wrote this. This doesn’t make it a sin, it tells you what his opinion is.
Third, no, I am not gay, but it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that gay people don’t CHOOSE to be gay. Think about why you are attracted to whoever you are attracted to. The only thin you can say is he/she is sexy, cute, beautiful, handsome, smart… what ever you say. Why do you like that? Why don’t you like something different. Why do some men like skinny women, and others like fat women. Nobody can answer this question. We don’t know. We just know that is what we like. Getting upset with someone because the like someone of the same sex, is the equivalent of getting upset with someone because they like Whoppers instead of Big Macs. It’s stupid. Furthermore, people have been chastised, persecuted, and even killed because they like someone of the same sex. Do you really think people choose this. Grow Up!
To hate or hold contempt is like taking poison but expecting someone else to die. May we all be blessed to “see” at least one nanosecond of life without the blindness hate.
No unwed mothers you are one of the most ignorant people on here. Children out of wedlock is a result of a sin you may have heard of called FORNICATION you idiot. Therefore a person can repent and be forgiven. What do you suggest a person do if they become pregnant because of their sin? Committ another sin like abortion/MURDER? What church do you go to you hateful baby killer?
For the record homosexuality is a sin and rather than accepting it people should pray for deliverance from it. The media is corrupting our children making them think that being gay is ok when it’s not. Being gay is a choice and anyone who is a “gay christian” is confused and should find a new church home because they are not being taught the word of God properly. No as Christians we are not supposed to judge others but we are not supposed to sit back and watch people perish for lack of knowledge. If I can show someone a scripture to help them flee from sin how is that judging or hating? These people are being misled by someone or themselves but it is my job to inform them of the Truth. Yes we all sin and no sin is greater than the other but we are supposed to work towards being Christ-like and not sin. You can’t do that if you try to condone your sin and convince yourself that it’s ok. I am not perfect no one is we all fall short but I don’t go around parading my sin around and being proud of it. Open the bible and read it for yourself and ask God for direction. By the way when is BET going to stop exploiting Black People?
The Bible says try the spirit by the spirit, no we don’t judge each other but we do judge the spirit of the the person. Homosexuality is wrong anything thats not in the will of God is wrong. Unfortunatley we live in the U.S.A
people should not judge the only judge is God, it seems that people are only passionate about certain aspects in the bible, like the rejection of homosexuality.
love one another that is the greatest lesson God has given us.
We in the African American community must not condone homophobic behavior. Discrimination of any form should not be tolerated. We are a people with a thorough understanding of what it is to fall victim to vicious stereotypes and dehumanizing prejudgements. Who are we to contribute to the persecution of homosexuals. Nonetheless, the homosexual lifestyle has no future. It is literally counter-productive. This lifestyle contradicts our natural human purpose of procreation. As a Christian, I do not approve of this lifestyle, however, gays and lesbians should be free to express themselves as they see fit. It is evident that their “judgement” will come in the form of the destruction of their lineage. God gave us free will. Christians show loving reverence to God by keeping His commandments. Housed within us is a constant struggle between our spiritual and carnal natures. We must find balance, which is conducive to the attainment of inner peace. It is not our place to reprogram homosexuals; some may find the peace that they seek, others may not. But I can honestly say that those who study the Word and seek Christ will expedite their attainment of that balance between both spiritual and carnal natures. Please consider these scriptures: Lev. 18:22, Lev.20:13,Romans6:2-12,Romans5:1-3,Romans3:22-24,Romans10:9-11,1Cor.6:9-19&7:3-7,GALATIANS 5:16-26 & 6:1-10.
YOU KNOW WAT ITS NASTY ANYWAY U LOOK AT IT……….imagine u going somewhea whea it is made to release not take in,NOW THATS AGAINST THE LAW,,,,then again sayin u behind them u go for it u juss as bad,THATS AGAISNST THE LAW….and anyone who puts there self thru a transformation to go against what GOD made thenselves is sick so how can anyone speak up for gays,THATS AGAINST THE LAW…and again THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH SOMEONE’S HEAD TO WANNA BECOME THAT CAUSE FORGET ALL THESE MAN MADE, EVEN ,WHITE, ANALYSIS THAT SAY ITS BORN IN YOU, YEAH RIGHT…….LOOK AT THE COME-ON,,THATS WHY ITS SO MUCH MESS AND MORE MESS GOING ON ,NO ONE WANTS TO DO THE RIGHT THING..AND, THATS AGAINST THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!GOD LAWS……….
JUSS FILTHY!!!!!!!!!AND FAKE……..
SOME OF THESE STATEMENTS JUST PROVE THAT THERE ARE MANY SO CALLED “CHRISTIANS” IN THE WORLD THAT ARE JUST AS IGNORANT AS THE NON-BELIEVER!
Before Cleo turned into a freak messing with mark anthony, there was no Africa (there were Asiatic Black Men and Women) therefore it dos’nt surprize me that afro-americans imitate the white way! This crap started on the plantation, it was,nt the sister that the slave master wanted…it was the brother’s manhood that the slave master wanted…and still lust’s after. He never had any use for his woman…because he has been strange from birth..but I don’t mind because…just more choice’s in women for my son’s!! Punks in the trunk!!!!!!!!!!
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